Iırc from 1976 all Phantoms cleared for using Aim-9L’s.
Yes, I recall similiarly that F-4J/S COULD carry 9L IRL.
Its balancing decision, similiarly to F/A-18C early having 9Ls instead of 9Ms despite being in Desert Storm config.
In theory it allows the plane to sit at lower BR where most of its kit remains competetive.
And hey if F/A-18C early gets to sit at lower BR by not having 9Ms i take it.
Argument is whenever the UK Phantoms could recieve 9L without BR increase, but seeing as Skyflashes really dont compare to 7M/Fs, id say it would be possible
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Tbh F-18C Early,CFA, Swiss F-18C could use Aim-9M in exchange for 13.0 Br.
9/10 times you will get dragged into 13.3-13.7 so might as well have some advantage for close range combat.
It’s at 12.0 just to make you suffer.
I like the way they are (since bulk of the killing is done by the 7P anyway) but ultimately it wouldnt affect me that much so.
This is why the Tornado F.3 will forever be my go-to 12.0 grind plane.
Its everything the Phantom wants to be but isn’t lol
Only thing the Tornado F.3 misses is a competitive flight model which I will give to edge in a dogfight to the Spey Phantoms.
I remember seeing something that the FG.1 was largely retired and placed into reserve before the FGR.2 was cleared for 9L use. So in active service the FG.1 never used them and could be taken to 11.7 where its kit fits better and the FGR.2 can sit at 12.0 with the 9L.
Once the Tornado’s flight model is corrected/buffed it can then sit at 12.3 without issue as currently it sits with the strongest avionics suite of any 12.0 plane in the game with a very strong kit too.
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Slippery slope is a logical fallacy
Ur missing the point, the topic never asks for skyflashes with pd radars to go down in br, we r just asking a plane thats overtiered to go down. Saying that this will lead to all said planes with the Skyflash missle to go down is a misconception
Those guys will understand it as ‘sending F-4J/S to 12.3 on their own, make them tie with F-4EJ Kai or F/A-18A, and make em free meal of Su-30MK’
-Gaijin is unlikely to want to decompress the whole bracket.
But this hasnt happened yet, so its just a conjecture of ur own, cannot use guesswork to justify keeping the f4j uk in a overtier position mate
AlvisWisla told us that B-52H, Tu-95, B-66B and such other bombers which can do nothing need to maintain their BR ‘because compression is bad. and the BR of bombers are decompressed enough.’
Isnt that guy full of bias as he constantly claims that 15km launched mavs can fight against pansit mvs
XD
I am the one who wants to send her down
The problem is ‘we need to sacrifice to prevent BR compression’, while others are not.
But we both know Gaijin is never ever gonna make it
I can bet the F-4S can get a BR buff faster than the JUK.
It is not when we have precedents.
Look at all those Americans who yapped after the F-15A became the 12.7BR.
They wanted to send another undertiered jets down because nothing but biasing further.
The slippery slope is real in War Thunder.
The real problem is, we Brits don’t even have a chance to ride their slope, and only the US/USSR have the privilege to have domestic undertiered jets.
Yes. ‘That guy’.
Talking about decompression instead of stopgap compression itself is good.
Even he knows compression is bad :/
The problem is, he only uses those for rationalising Gaijin’s blunder.
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Your claim that my argument constitutes a slippery slope fallacy is misplaced. Not every projection of future consequences qualifies as a slippery slope. The fallacy arises only when someone asserts, without sufficient justification, that a relatively small step will inevitably trigger a chain of extreme outcomes.
In this case, however, we have years of BR changes to go on off. Similar developments have repeatedly led to these outcomes. Pointing out likely consequences when we have such documented history of BR changes and how they turned out is not a fallacy—it is a reasoned inference. In other words, I am not arguing that “A will inevitably lead to Z” without justification; I am arguing that “A has, in comparable circumstances, led to B, C, and D in the past, and therefore there is a credible basis to expect similar consequences here.” Ignoring such evidence would be less rational than acknowledging it. Therefore, dismissing my position as a slippery slope fallacy oversimplifies the argument and avoids engaging with the actual evidence presented.
“topic never asks for plane to go down in BR, were just asking for a plane to go down in BR”…either i am stupid, or you are, but certainly someone here is stupid.
Im not saying all planes with Skyflashes will go down subsequently. Read properly what ive said.
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-We saw someone who drove a bus fall off a cliff a week ago, brake malfunction.
-My bus driver is driving Cliff Road with no brakes
-assuming about “we are going to fall!” Is slippery slope fallacy
/j
I mean, I’m just a human being, so I want to see if we have our turn to destroy the game meta, due to nothing but a compensation mindset…
While also knowing how it will be bad, as we discussed earlier
But Gaijin…?
I’m doubly sure that F-4JUK on 11.7 takes centuries later than F-15A on 11.7BR. /s.
Gaijin probably end up with “Just play F-18A, case closed.”
“Russian bias is real, Gaijin hate NATO”
-Seeing F-15A
Russian bias my ass.
Ur unfortunately right man
too bad, F-15s are now 12.7, the sufa is coming down to 13.7, the M2KCS5 is coming down to 12.3, the F-8C is coming back down to 10.0 again too.
moving the F-4K, F-4M, and F-4J(UK) to 11.7 will not be as catastrophic as everyone is saying it will be.
the JA37C and F-4E already mop the floor with planes from 10.3 to 12.3, having heavier, slower phantoms with less and worse countermeasures at 11.7 instead of 12.0 won’t be the end of the world.
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Thats a big stretch.
12.3 planes shits on both Ja37C and F4E rather easily, hell even some 11.7’s cause serious issues to those planes.
that’s a big stretch. at 11.7, the only remotely dangerous thing is the MiG-23, which is a one-trick-pony anyways and you can beat it by not flying into the missiles that will be launched at you from ineffective ranges or angles.
at 12.3, nothing really “shits” on the aforementioned 11.3s. hornet, maybe, but if you get it to turn once, it’s no longer a threat. aside from that, there’s the F-4EJ Kai which is a slatless phantom, the seldom-used M2KCS4, and the overtiered Kurnass 2000 that can’t really do anything to you other than fire pythons at your countermeasures.
lol.
At 11.7 there is MiG-23 MLD which shits on any phantom/ Viggen at dogfight/flight performance, not to mention R24R’s and R-60M’s are much better than Aim-9J/Aim-7E2’s.
At 12.3 situation becomes worse for those planes because you will face F-16A models, F-20 tigersharks and Hornets which all of them are pretty much better than Viggen/F4E in every way.
Hornet can easily maintain its speed in dogfight if you dont use your AoA button like an idiot btw.
You’re claims are quite questionable.
R-60Ms aren’t anything special, 9Js can and will ignore flares alot of the time if launched at 1 kilometer. the MiG-23MLD is also a singular model of the plane of which there are a multitude of versions, available in only one techtree, in a folder that alot of people don’t look in. this is like saying an F-35A would be a trash jet because there’s some obscure prototype vehicle only one guy uses that has a niche feature that can overcome one advantage of the F-35
F-16As tend to die quickly, because people don’t understand that multipathing puts you at the altitude where 90% of the other players are putting you at a significant disadvantage in terms of defending missiles. and if not, you can just shoot them with a sparrow and they’ll die.
Tigershark is seldom seen, and it’s not that big of a deal, basically same issue as with the F-16.
the F/A-18A’s engines specifically are anemic, you aren’t maintaining any energy ever at all. ontop of that, don’t put words in my mouth, i never mentioned the AoA switch.
“you are” claims are quite questionable too, my man
This doesnt change the fact R-60M has all-Aspect capabilities which gives you more advantages on certain aspects which something Aim-9J cant.
This is the dumbest counter argument I read for a while, does MLD exists in game? Yes does it shits on both Viggen and F4E? Also yes.
End of the question.
This has nothing to do with plane itself but rather average player performance and it still doesn’t change the fact that F-16A will shit on both planes.
Same thing again, just because bad players using them doesn’t change the fact.
Both F-16A/20 are far superior than F4E and JA37, like it or not.
Simply skill issue, learn how to maintain your energy better in hornets.
Aside from very questionable claims you got anything other than that?