IIRC the SuperTEMPs were only developed after the Tornado F.3 and the ADV variant went into production. That was now after the F-4s were retired.
Seems strange since the SuperTEMP entered service in 1988, and the F-4 was already retired by then and no longer in service. Might’ve been tested on some F-4s.
its not like britain does not benefit from compression as well, see the 12.3 aussie hornet or the 12.7 CF-188A - planes that in all fairness hould go up in BR since they are better than other planes at those BRs but at the same time cant go up since there are objectively superior planes just above them.
Should we resign on calling for decompression then? I dont think thats good idea.
also last time entire community was truly united, snail got salted and we got our way, just sayin.
see the hornet point
most people i know, me included, called that a terrible decision.
almost all people i know, me included, called that a terrible decision. single person who said they are fine at 13.3 was trolling and saying its IR missiles dont count towards the overall missile count.
but by continuing to apply the band aid solution by moving single planes up and down theres precedent being created to allow further band aid solutions.
as i said, i dont think F-4J(UK) should sit at same BR as F-4J/S.
so we move the F-4J(UK) down to 11.7.
But then some nutjob will come in and say F-4J/S shouldnt be seeing ARH carriers, even the legacy ones, and that FA/-18A sitting at 12.3 are simply too much, so we move F-4J/S down as well.
But now theyre once again sitting at same BR as F-4J(UK) so we move it down again.
Then F/A-18A gets moved down for whatever reason and were back to where we started.
I just feel like its pointless changes that achieve nothing in the long run.
and its kinda on the playerbase for not taking a firm stance and just saying NO.
Yeah, now we are also taking advantage of compression. I might be buried in old memories, when we had none of the Aussie hornets.
Yeah, agrees about this part, if we resign, things will be even worse than now.
But things are just making me tired and wants to resign. ngl.
Unlike last time, we are not going to see entire community go truly united, and we have high chance snail will salt us and they get their way instead.
Hope we salt snail again, just like how when they wanted to drastically nerf the reward, tho.
Somehow, Gaijin devs genuinely believe that we are wrong and their glorious statistics are right
Just like how they let Tonka rot in 11.7. :/
The sad part of this is that we might be a storm inside a teacup.
Deep inside, in theory, I think, band-aid solutions should only be applied when things are urgent.
Example: Back in the day when Harrier GR.1 was a game-breaker, or AV-8B(NA) and Harrier T.10, B-66B, which had no use on Air RB.
That is why Gaijin implemented new way of balancing.
old lame way,
Powercreeping things, and repurbish/babysit things which are only famous.
1950s subsonic can’t fight against Supersonics?
→ Buff F-86A-5 and MiG-15 down to 8.0 (Sacrificing other 7.0~8.0 jets just for them)
MiG-23MLD and F-4S became problem?
→ Releasing MiG-21bison, F/A-18A
F/A-18A become problem? → release Su-30MK.
Ohhhh, F-15A became obsolete, and players went mad?
→ Check statistics, buff them down
As we all know, it seems, to Gaijin, a band-aid solution became the new normal. :/
Yep…
For example,
Probably, sending F-4J/S up to 12.3 would be better for decompressing, than F-4J(UK) down to 11.7 directly.
But we will face tons of complaints about ‘F-4J/S cannot fight against Su-30MK, you are russian mains who have British main’s mask!’
So… nowadays thinking about resigning more and more and more.
issue is the same as i outlied it with hornets. at 12.3 theres the EJ Kai which is superior to F-4J/S in every aspect, let alone the 18As. so no on their own, yes if we get decompression for the whole bracket.
Issue is, F-4J/S really cant go against MK2/MKK -.- i feel like im playing piano when i face them in 18C early. Its doable, sure, but it needs some thinking. F-4J/S with HDN PD only radar wouldnt really stand a chance.
They will still complain about it because of two parts
-Those guys will understand it as ‘sending F-4J/S to 12.3 on their own, make them tie with F-4EJ Kai or F/A-18A, and make em free meal of Su-30MK’
-Gaijin is unlikely to want to decompress the whole bracket.
But yeah, your idea makes a lot more sense than the usual gaijin way.
‘still thinking a bit about direct buff down of F-4J(UK) with compensation mindset tho :P’
Aaaand probably Su-30MK2/MKK players will complain
“We cannot fight against Rafale” either.
:/
damn, this compression is somewhat kinda of a clusterfuck.
as i said, we need systemic solutions.
I wont lie, Rafale going to 14.7 made my MKK games much more easier, but even before then it wasnt such hopeless fight since PL-12s still outrange the MICAs.
However I cant really imagine how would fight between F-4J/S/FGR Phantom and premium Su-30 go - it would be disaster on so many levels lol.
The idea of 9L is being thrown around a lot which I wouldnt opose, but good lord, I was trying for a long long time to get those for F-4F late to no end.
Its even funnier when you realize Junk is at 12.0 while F-15 sits 0.3 higher with better FM,better radar,better weapons such as 9M and everything. Just like the new 9.12 MiG,sitting higher than F-15 making zero sense where it have R-60Ms vs 9Ms and 2 27Rs vs 6 AIM-7Ms. And again superior FM compared to MiG.
bro is posting from 2027 apparently.
Can’t wait to see F-15 sits 0.3 lower when we realise Junk is STILL at 12.0 /j
in Gaijin’s solution, at this rate, we will gonna see in distant future ;)
Nwm,12.7 but still,given US mains it will probably go down to 12.3 lol
Well, if Wiki is to be believed
All three were retired somewhere in early 90s (FG.1 in January 1990, FGR.2 in November 1992 and F.3 in January 1991), so there is small time frame of 2 to 3 years where SuperTEMP and Phantoms in RAF service overlapped
Its not compression when jets are not in the right BR grouping to start with.
F-4J UK is a PD phantom. We do not need to push PD phantoms downwards.
If we have this compression ‘forever’
Just like how those F-86/MiG-15 subsidie buff went
Then we really might need to consider sending it down
F-4J(UK) has neither of good points from F-4J(USN) nor F-4K/M(UK)
I mean,
I want to send it down because it is nonsense to keep it in the same BR of F-4J/S,
Maybe the impact of buff F-4J(UK) might not be that big if we think about Viggen
Still, I am well aware that this is awful in the long term, so I hope this needs to be considered only as a last resort.
Send counterparts higher is better. Ngl.
Unless… Gaijin go schizo and superior F-4S go down further to 11.7BR to get extra babysitting. While inferior F-4J(UK) is still stuck at 12.0BR.
I think there is no point remain to being idealistic if Gaijin backstab us again like that. :/
Unless we are planning to be Alvis /j
F-4S is in the same boat (xaxa, get it, naval aircrafts) as the F-4JUNK. It just need top end decompression, 13.0 is far to strong in comparison, a lot need to be bumped to 13.3 to avoid it being an issue (MiG-29 9-13) which I have played, and am happy it received its R-73’s, however, it’s way too strong against 12.0’s.
It is debatable because F-4J/S(USN) can access AIM-7F while Junk is limited to Skyflash (currently E-2 equivalent)
Those may also need some help to fight against compression abusers such as F-15A, and in a similar position
But I think those are not in the same boat with ours because those USN phantoms are in a significantly better position.
They need somewhere like 12.15-ish
Between F-4EJ Kai
(12.3) and F-4JUK(12.0)
Have you considered the endless run-off effect of doing this
Yes, of course I did.
If we think about a lake which everyone throws rubbish into.
If I also throw rubbish into the lake, then things will be even worse.
But If I don’t throw rubbish into the lake, while others still throw those.
Nothing will be changed. And all I can get with that movement is extra petit self ego.
Look at all those bullshits Gaijin did for compressions
Every subsonic suffers from F-104A/C, but Gaijin decided to send only F-86 and MiG-15/17 down and take care of them, while letting those other subsonics such as Venom, Sea Vixen, Mystere remain suffer.
Both F-16A Netz and F-16A(USAF) suffered from being non-meta and powercrept hard. (Well, they said.)
Netz took extra months to take the same care as the F-16A did. ’ Because Python 3 is slightly faster than AIM-9L.’
Every 12.3~13.3BR jets suffered from Su-30MKs(MKK,MK2) wave. every non-fox-3-slinger have disadvantage against fox-3 slingers
Gaijin decided to babysit F-15A/J/Baz exclusively to 12.7BR.
So, As I told earlier.
I might give up about decompression idea if Gaijin backstabbing us again.
AFAIK, AlvisWisla told us that B-52H, Tu-95, B-66B and such other bombers which can do nothing need to maintain their BR ‘because compression is bad. and the BR of bombers are decompressed enough.’
In the worst-case scenario of ‘If Gaijin did shit again, and F-4J/S really became lower BR than F-4JUK’, then there is no point to keep F-4JUK to 12.0BR ig.
If F-4J went 11.7, probably also sending F-4JUK lower would be a fairer idea than keeping her higher than a superior jet. unless we need to be Alvis.
I think you understood what I meant.
I am generally fine with the decompression idea.
But if… Gaijin never decompress the BR radius of F-4J and such… F/A-18A remains 12.3 forever…
Even after we gave enough time to decompress and fix things up.
Then we might need to consider sending F-4J(UK) lower.
TLDR.
1- F-4J(UK) shouldn’t be same BR with F-4J/S. But currently, we cannot send them lower because of a compression issue.
2- Sending F-4J/S and other counterparts higher is a better option, but I am a bit curious about whether it will ever happen.
3- In case this stagnation goes on forever, I think I might side with ‘send F-4JUK lower party’ I don’t want to see another Netz case.
4- I hope decompression happens before I go loony.
We were robbed AIM-9L? Geez, I thought Phantom FGR2 was a useless bus
“You should be happy with your 59% WR Spitfire LF MK9”
I mean this philosophy kinda be true since we get utterly half-assed jets, tanks, SPAA and missiles.