Why is 16v16 still a thing?

Why is 16v16 still a thing with ARH missiles soon coming to game and why Gaijin still didnt justify the change even though a lot of people are complaining about it?


Because gaijin have shares in the letter W at the keyboard store




In comparison, new medium-range missiles such as the AIM-120, R-77, MICA EM and others are created and intended for use against maneuvering aircraft. Aircraft capable can carry up to 8-10 of these missiles each, which in game terms means the possibility to fire up to 100 missiles per side. Combining this with the radar capabilities of these missiles and their maneuvering characteristics at medium and close-range, this could drastically alter the current meta of the game and make it much more difficult and unforgiving when making even the slightest error.

Having said this, going by our internal tests, air dueling situations between a small group of players in a battle using these types of missiles lead to some very interesting gameplay, with new tactical approaches being created. It’s also worth noting that these missiles don’t generally provide any new range parameters for hitting targets compared to the existing ones.

Based on the above, we’re planning to conduct mass general tests of this type of weapon and their aircraft within the current dev server period. This test will be held in the form of an event with a given set of aircraft and missiles — every player who has unlocked Rank VI aircraft on the live server will be able to take part.

They are considering it…

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The problem they never stated what considered small teams. For all we could know they’re talking about 16V16 teams.

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Are they? I’m not believing it until they actually announce it, consideration means absolutely nothing.

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Consideration does absolutely mean nothing but crying about it wont help either, I hate the 16 vs 16 thing in general myself but posting discussions about it won’t make a difference.

It made difference against economy changes last year with help of review bombing, im not saying we should do that again, I’m saying that the more posts there are about certain problem they are more likely to get adressed (I hope).

The issue with this is that it only really affects air realistic which is currently a minority of the player base compared to ground, the economy review bombing was a game issue on the other hand.

Cause 16v16 is realistic and an added challenge over lower BRs.
If I wanted Counter Strike 2 in the air I’d just play the tournaments.

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Thats true, but I dont think its a minority (in my opinion that would be naval or sim modes), throughout a 24 hour period, lot of players play air realistic across all BR’s, both new players that are yet ufamiliar with forum, and experienced players that are just not bothered with how the game functiones.
Yes it does only affects air realistic, but that is also a reason why are some players (myself included) stepping out from playing the mode. Its chaos and its not fun, especialy at higher tiers, early jets and props are managable, but just because there are no missiles there and you can actually think about how you are gonna aproach the enemies or furball or whatever.

No, the vocal minority are complaining about it. Decreasing teamsizes would cause several issues that noone talks about. Firstly, in a 6v6 or 8v8 scenario, how fair or fun is it to have several strike aircraft on your team where the other team has full fighters, or where the planes on your team are mostly of the lower end of the br bracket, and the other team has mostly of the upper end. It exacerbates any imbalance and would make it near impossible to play if you are in a stock vehicle in an upteir, or playing solo and come up against multiple man squads. But the main thing, is that this massively benefits the more skilled and more confident players, because there is less for them to worry about other than the 1v1 they are in. it would mean that the average players would suffer, and would lead to much more domination by single players or squads. There is already a ranked mode for competative players, if you want to have a small game where skill really matters you can play that already.


This is why 10v10 or 12v12 are the best options.

16v16 has eliminated 1v1s and anything involving less than 3 players. It has ruined air RB for me.


A 12v12 mode wouldnt help getting 1v1’s any more than 16v16. people furball because its what they know to do, and as a casual player, it gets you more kills and score than just looking for 1v1’s that you probably wont win. If you want 1v1’s id suggest the ranked mode, or just setting up custom games with friends or squadron mates


True, but that was also the problem in 12v12 matches when I started playing 6 years ago, and is still problem with 16v16, but I’m mostly talking about the top tier which suffers the most in 16v16 lobbies as thats the part I have most interest in.

And it should benefit more skilled players, those players became skilled because they poured hours and hours into the game and earned their skill, they did not became skilled by entering credit card information.

And thats why newer players shouldn’t buy their progression in the game with premiums that they don’t know how to play. WT has come to a point where monkey can learn how to play it yet some players don’t.

That ranked mode is happening only in certain time period where most of the time I’m not at home. If its an all time thing like it was almost year ago when those ranking events with props were a thing I wouldnt even touch Air Rb.

You have no idea how wrong you are, I have like a 100+ shadowplay replays of dogfights saved while I was acing out Mig-21SMT while 12v12 was still a thing. And even more with M2000S-C5.

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It isnt really a problem with 16v16 as it is now. There are enough players on each team that the people who do fly those top teir strike aircraft do no hamper the team. and there are still top teir strike aircraft, the tornados, the Jh-7, the harrier gr.7, the AV-8B, the strike mirage variant. this would effect top teir. and some of those planes would have limited capabilites against other planes, but are still a massive downgrade to any fighters.

the game already does, and it shouldnt anymore. there is nothing to objectively hamper skilled players, there is just more to pay attention to. You should not punish the average player more, just so that the top 1% can flex their skills.

This has nothing to do with lower level players, anyone who just plays the game casually can very quickly get to top teir by just playing through the tree. these players should not be labelled as idiots or anything like that, and you should not be making the game harder or less fun for them.

you can still get highlights in 16v16. I also played when it was 12v12 and it was really no different to 16v16. the skilled players will still be on top, no matter the player count. its just a question of how hard they will club.

Your whole mentality about this issue is skewed. war thunder is not really a competative game. You can win or lose matches, but that doesnt effect you in any real way, there is no elo system where you can derank, or anything like that. all the modes are casual modes. You are looking from a competative players perspective. Gaijin should not cater to the 1% over the rest of the playerbase, even if that 1% shouts the loudest. Something that people always forget, is that just because gaijin does not do something that is suggested on the forums, does not mean they are not listening or have not heard it. They may simply know or think it is a bad idea, or know that the majority of players do no want such changes.


Agreed, I’m just hoping Gaijin will properly implement Br’s across the gamemodes as they stated in the roadmap

A lot of WT players don’t know what term “Energy” stands for, its not just about attention, its about proper use of keyboard to do maneuvers better, knowing capabilities of other aircraft and such, average players should always be in a disadvantage to a skilled player if they are not willing to learn. And I wouldn’t call that flexing i would call that knowledge.

Isn’t that devs fault then? How are you expecting to have both sides happy if you give them only one option. Then they should give both sides multiple options to choose from what they think what would work for them the best. In my case I would enjoy 1v1’s and 4v4’s with some buddies. Some would enjoy more arcadey gameplay like 12v12 was, or hell even 16v16 as it is now.

WT may not be overall competitive game but it does have competitive gamemodes; Tournaments you mentioned earlier, Squadron battles, and lets not forget the 1v1, 2v2, 4v4 events that happened over a year ago.

those events I keep mentioning prove that wrong, they had similar system if not the same system as elo. You play matches, earn score and depending on that score you would be matched with other player with similar score. And lets not forget the leaderboards across all gamemodes under the Community tab, but I dubt that has any use actually.

Because I am competitive player, and so are a lot of other players.

And they shout the loudest because they want the game to turn for better, not just for themselves but for everyone

Well they still didin’t justify why 16v16 was introduced so…

If thats the case then they should explain why bad changes happen with valid, honest reason and not to soften it up. If there is a certain problem that will at some point negatively affect the game, players should know why is it happening and when they can expect it to be fixed. But if they are hiding something and not letting us understand what it is, of course that (some) people are gonna be furious.

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However, it will make them more likely to happen, and it would make the eventual furball more bearable.

12v12 also would also make steamrolls less common and less severe.

There was no reason to change to 16v16 matchmaking in the first place too.

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As I understand they increased it to 16v16 because of player feedback, but that could be completely wrong. I wouldnt particularly mind 12v12, because i dont think it would hamper my gameplay in any real way, but i would prefer to have as many people in a game as possible, more people means more potential kills and score to get, makes spading planes easier and makes events easier.

Im not so sure it would, right now I dont very often see steamrolls, most games end with 4 or less players alive at the end

I wouldnt be opposed to them having an option for a smaller lobby to be allowed on a per player basis, a bit like night battles, where you can opt in or out of these smaller lobbies, and then i think we would see exactly how many people do actually want and like the smaller lobbies.

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They already are, and putting average players in constant 1v1’s they cannot win, would just cause frustration. Putting players in 1v1’s constantly would most certainly let the more skilled players flex their skills. It wouldnt be particularly difficult to beat average joe over there, even if the planes br is the same. Its not a challenge, or a fair fight, its just seal clubbing.

It isnt the Devs fault to make everyone happy, because they never can, the forus show that every day. They want to make as many people happy as possible, while maintaining the revenue they need to keep the game going, so they appease the majority. The reason they might not want to give modes for both, is that in general, splitting queues is not a good idea, and would increase the queue times by unestimateable amount. if only a small portion of the playerbase would actually play the mode, why invest the dev time to do it, and potentially make the experience worse for the majority by increasing their queue times.

But these are not the mode in question, im sure they will bring these modes back in the future, but there is little incentive to run this from a company perspective, because it doesnt really gain them anything for the dev time. Just look at the current esports streams, they need twitch drops to get over 200 viewers, and if you look at the chat it is literally just people asking about the drops. the amount of people that actually care about the competative side of the game is really small.

Again, that isnt the mode in question. those modes are their own thing.

Nothing wrong with that, but you do have to recognise where your opinions will differ from the majority, and where what you want from the game will differ.

I think thats debatable on a per person basis, most people just want the game to be better for themselves.

As much as it would be nice to get an explaination for every change made, i dont thnk they are really obliged to. A lot of the descisions they make probably arent consumer friendly, and so explaining them where there is no need to doesnt help them any more than explaining it would. You can generally work out why they make changes anyhow, its either because of player feedback, or because it increases the revenue/playerbase in some way.

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