Why Gaijin refuses to change the game mode (Air realistic battle)

Game Discussion Realistic Battle
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Why isn’t Gaijin doing anything to change the air realistic battle mode?

There are tons of polls, videos, threads on the forums about this… And this has been going on constantly and uninterruptedly for months and months.

Absolutely everyone agrees that the game mode should be overhauled, it’s by far the most requested thing on the top tier air realistic battle game and Gaijin is bound to know about it…

So the question is this:

-Why is Gaijin doing nothing and refusing to communicate on the subject?

Technical limitations linked to the graphics engine, the servers, lack of game designer on Gaijin’s side?

There’s a real problem here, and I think it’s the number-one priority on which the community needs to mobilize.

This game has enormous potential, but Gaijin refuses to modernize it - what a shame…

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The forums represent a tiny minority of the playerbase, and as does the reddit and youtube. Not everyone agrees that the game needs massive changes, and even if everyone on the forums, reddit and content creation side did, they would still be in the minority. I believe the mode could do with some small tweaks, but it is generally good as is. Gaijin has not refused to communicate about this, and thy do read and take feedback from the forums, but when most of the posts and comments are not constructive, and are just people complaining or saying things that have already been said, tried, and failed, why would they bother saying anything, because they will just have to say it again in a month or so when someone who has not read past comments brings the same thing up again.

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“but when most of the posts and comments are not constructive, and are just people complaining or saying things that have already been said, tried, and failed, why would they bother saying anything”

I don’t think we live in the same world.

There are tons of requests and suggestions constantly put forward that are always the same, like the air realistic battle EC for example.

I’d also like to see what trials you’re talking about, because apart from enlarging the map, adding players and a landing strip, I don’t see anything very concrete.

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+1

I really really hope some kind of overhaul to Air RB takes place before the widespread introduction of Fox-3 missiles some time next year.

Imagine the current 16v16 Air RB match, but now everyone spams four to eight “fire and forget” radar missiles each. It would be a veritable fustercluck.

I’d be happy to see any innovation or change for the better, no matter what it is. Personally I’m rooting for some kind of Enduring Confrontation mode, adapted for Air Realistic. (Preferably without markers).

I think many of us would appreciate some kind of moderator statement on this.

Note: I don’t neccesarily think air RB needs to be replaced, but more like supplemented by something new. The current mode could simply be downscaled to 8v8, and kept around as an option for those who prefer fast-paced matches.

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Yea I don’t know what to do but he need an official answer to this

+1 I can’t imagine the actual game mode with fox 3 lmao

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Not having the entire playerbase inside of this community does not mean that this community’s feelings are different from those of the rest of the playerbase, we are not different. Air RB needs a rework and there’s a lot of constructive comments, lots of them. It’s not just complains, a lot of comments try to describe the issues and provide solutions and ideas.

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This is completely insulting.

Ive seen similar falsities said by a few people, biggest of all being The European Canadian YouTuber or TEC.

It is very clear that the people saying this are just not understanding data or how data is gathered.

Yes, Every poll, every stat, every data-set represents a cross-section of players.

For thia forum, most players are completely unaware or are too busy to take the time to think about the intricacies of a video game. But that does NOT mean they are fine with the game or have no complaints.

Regarding Air RB and the issues with the game mode, the polls made on this have hundreds of votes. Not just a dozen or two. These issues get A LOT of attention and A LOT of activism and many have been begging for a change for years.

The people that do comment on here are typically very committed to this game. Most have invested a huge number of hours into the game.

We, here on the forums, are the voices that matter, because we represent the opinions of those that are unaware or unable to lay out their opinions. We also devote the time to lay out our opinions.

Like political polls, the forums represent a cross section. Its just not possible to get every individual players opinion because many just don’t care enough. It doesn’t mean they don’t care at all but they’ll probably be here no matter what. We, here, are representing the War Thunder playerbase. This is the whole point of having a forum.

To say something like “well the forums don’t represent the majority of players” is an unprovable statement and just not true. If it were true, then there wouldnt be a forum.

Then there’s the FTP element. Remember this is a FTP game.

A LOT of us on this forum are whales. We fund the game. We keep the lights on. That new shiny plane you’re grinding - yeah…it’s we who funded the majority of it.

So, if many of us say that there is a problem with a game mode, there IS a problem with the game mode.

We’re not asking for much here. We’re asking for some minor adjustments to a game mode. But…

Ignore us, and lose your most loyal assets. Lose your whales. Lose your funding. Lose your game.

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They aren’t refusing to change anything.
We’re a minority of the playerbase.
Nearly all the suggestions either require an AI overhaul [years] or are trying to solve a problem that doesn’t need solved.

Minority request. Last time this was tested, it had less than 10% of the sim EC playerbase in popularity, and sim EC was far less popular back then.

It’d be DCS but with more awareness as we already have BVR maps well beyond the range of AMRAAMs etc.

@House_of_Schmidt
There are 120,000 hourly players. That’s over 2.5 million daily players. That’s assuming they play 1 hour, but many play only 1 - 2 matches, and of course some play more than 1 hour.

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The people that pay for vehicles are the ones who matter, and if vehicles are continue being purchased, the most important metric of all - money, shows that the game doesn’t have major problems.

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As far as the OP’s question, i have a few unproveable theories.

  1. Somebody working for Gaijin is VERY committed to Sim EC. I believe it is a pet project for a very small group of developers. The addition of Air RB EC or adjusting Air RB to be more similar to an EC mode will almost certainly take some players away from Sim EC. This may not go over well with those devs that made Sim EC their pet project.

  2. Gaijin’s AI is not good. AI takes a lot of work to perfect, especially when it comes to flight games and weapon mechanics. 3 dimensions, different missiles, many ways to maneuver. Its not an easy thing to program. Many of these suggestions would require a rework of in-match AI and that’s a difficult task.

  3. Servers… simply put, we all know Gaijin has its server issues. Idk why this is but many of these suggestions would require additional load to be put on their servers and maybe the servers at the moment cant handle it.

-ive heard a few people say that this was the reason that Gaijin ghost patched 16 vs 16 into the game - just to ease the stress on their servers.

  1. They just dont want to devote money to it right now. I hope this isnt true but its always a possibility. Remember that War Thunder doesn’t have many direct competitors so they may be okay with one game mode being broken for a time.

  2. Id love for this to be true but the other option is that they are working on something. I wouldn’t hold my breath here, but there are some signs that something is occuring behind the scenes. Maybe the 2024 roadmap will shed some light on this but we’ll see.

This is all speculation and i have no real idea what the reason is for Gaijin ignoring the issues with Air RB.

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The people on this forum tend to be those who have invested the most into the game. Premium time, premium vehicles, research, aced crews, talismans.

As i said in my post. Many of us are whales and like it or not, whales fund these games.

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Somebody working for Gaijin is VERY committed to Sim EC. I believe it is a pet project for a very small group of developers. The addition of Air RB EC or adjusting Air RB to be more similar to an EC mode will almost certainly take some players away from Sim EC. This may not go over well with those devs that made Sim EC their pet project.

Yea maybe, its a solide arguments

Servers… simply put, we all know Gaijin has its server issues. Idk why this is but many of these suggestions would require additional load to be put on their servers and maybe the servers at the moment cant handle it.

Same

Id love for this to be true but the other option is that they are working on something. I wouldn’t hold my breath here, but there are some signs that something is occuring behind the scenes. Maybe the 2024 roadmap will shed some light on this but we’ll see.

I really hope for this, because they already work for fox3 nd I can’t imagine they didn’t plan to change the game mode at that point…

If only we could have a little moderator post or something to keep us up to date on all this :P

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yeah it would be nice if the developers straight up told us what they plan to do. If they tell us they are going to eventually rework Air RB, then I will grind the new jets right now. Otherwise I’m not going to touch Air RB ever again.

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If you are insulted by this, then you really need to get a grip.

A hundred or two hundred votes is nothing for a game that has over a hundred thousand active users at any one time. The polls are localised to the forums and they might get a higher percentage of the forums to react, but that is fairly meaningless because of what i will get onto next.

This is really not true in many ways. Most of the people on the forums are here exactly because they are not happy, any scroll through the front page of the forums will bring up literally hundreds of posts of people simply spewing random hate about the game, usually unfairly. We on the forums are exactly the voices that shouldnt matter, because the reason most people are on the forums is that they are upset with the game. The fact that there are simply so few people on the forums shows that the average player, and the majority of the playerbase, simply dont really care, they just play the game, have fun, and when they stop having fun, they stop playing and go do something else. People vote with their wallets and time.

This doesnt really make any sense. What you are saying is that that if the forums doesn’t represent the majority of players, then there wouldnt be a forum. The forum was created by gaijin, and one of the main parts of it is the suggestions part. is was designed for many things including the suggestions part, but also discussion of vehicles both in the game and not in, and helping new players who need advice. The forums was not just created for feedback, and is not only held up by it. The forums would exist even if the game was exactly perfect.

Its funny you’ve said this about the people on the forums, because its exactly true for the majority of people on the forums. You see hundreds of posts every day of people saying they hate the game and yet they come back to it evey day. The people who have invested more time and money into the game, are the ones that come back day to day, so you can threaten gaijin to say people will leave if they are not listened to, but the fact is that people wont stop playing, and wont stop spending money, because even if everyone on the forums actually did, which would never happen but lets for arguments sake say it did, it would still have little to no impact on the game because the forums are the minority. This has been proven time and time again when people on the forums threaten this or that, and then nothing happens. even when the review bombing happened, those people still kept playing the game. The best part is, gaijin does listen to the community, they just dont listen to everything that people post. They might well make changes to Air RB, there are some changes i would like to see, but the opinon of people on the forums should bear no more weight than anyone elses.

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Gaijin literally doesn’t care about SIM , that’s why it is in such a pathetic state

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Kinda weird to be on the forums spewing this^

By this logic, there is no point of this section of the forum or for you to be posting here… because according to you… what we say on here holds absolutely no weight and shouldn’t be listened to.

Therefore you shouldn’t be listened to either.

So why even post here?

  • To just argue?

  • To personify the “Actually Meme”?

Again, as i said in my post, you seem to be misunderstanding how a polling works. It’s representative. No statistic or poll actually involves getting input from every individual. It’s a cross-section.

The forums are a representation of people in the game.

You seem to be claiming that there is this “silent majority” that is perfectly fine with how things are and doesn’t think the game needs changing. A majority that will just forever play the game no matter what…

… Prove it.

You can’t because it’s an unproveable statement as are most “silent majority” claims.

The only objective feedback Gaijin has is forums and social media…

Which is why we’re all here… to be heard…

Idk where you’ve been but the review bombing had a MAJOR impact on the game and vastly changed War Thunder’s economy for the better. Gaijin is now going to start producing regular roadmaps too so yea. It scared them because it made them look bad. The review bombing worked…

Sure people keep playing the game for now and the playerbase keeps growing… for now… but just because that’s how it is right now, doesn’t mean that’s how it’s always going to be.

Once upon a time, Blackberry, AOL, and Kodak said the same thing. Very recently, Battlefield said something very similar. Look at all those franchises today.

They became stagnant and compliant and threw away their position.

War Thunder isn’t some unicorn. It’s subjected to the same market realities as everyone else and today a HUGE part of the market is feedback and media.

We are here to provide feedback.

So yes.

Feedback matters.

And yes.

Feedback should be listened to…

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It’s certainly not their focus but from what Ive heard, there are a few developers that are very passionate about Air Sim. Could just be rumors but it’s one theory as to why Air RB EC or some sort of an RB EC Lite mode is ignored by the developers.

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is that why they havent fixed and changed anything about it for years now

if they actually had 2-3 dedicated devs for air sim DCS wouldnt even exist anymore by now

i wish what you said was true

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I didn’t say they had a team dedicated to Sim.

I said they have a few devs that are very passionate about Sim and those devs created Sim EC as their own pet project.

Im guarantee those devs work on other things the vast majority of the time.

It’s just a rumor though. Idk if it’s true or not.

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On the one hand, Gaijin promote the game as having a huge number of “realistic” vehicles. This encourages players and buyers. On the other hand, Gaijin only really encourages fighter TDM - see the Skill Bonus that was recently introduced. It’s really a bit of a con that the game isn’t designed to have a successful role for all aircraft types. Some sort of Air RBEC might be useful in addressing this point.

In any case, two more years and Gaijin will be up-to-date on aircraft types and will either need to find some other revenue stream or close down the game. A new game mode that made use of all the excellent vehicle models just might be a way of (relatively cheaply) prolonging their use.

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