It doesn’t have flares.
Did you know you can use rockets as flares?
Yes. They are not as good by any regard.
Better than not having any. You go from being totally 100% dead to that AIM-9P or G (what the OP complained about), to being able to dodge all 2 or 4 that the enemy carries.
Sure, still not a reason to uptier the jet. Even flares themselves would not be.
The issue is that the only person making this claim is you. Don’t put yourself as a “representative” of everyone. You are not everyone.
I have supported my info through proven experience and statshark info (which has been confirmed to be reliable by a majority of players). You not believing in said evidence does not make it less true. At the very least, I provided evidence. Have you provided anything other than “I think this is true so it must be true”?
Of course it is. The main counter to the 104A (better missiles than a 9B) is now easily defeatable.
No, it isn’t.
On what basis? Other than “I said no”.
On the basis that being able to survive a missile does not automatically mean uptiering. Uptiering should only be done when the aircraft isn’t balanced at the old BR. The F-104C, even if it had full blown flares, could stay 9.3 as ultimately it doesn’t become overpowered or oppressive. It does not have flares.
I think the issue is that it’s still an objectively better (overall) aircraft than the A model. Like PercussionCap said, the pods can make for makeshift flares, which allows it to invalidate stronger IR missiles of the BR like AIM-9D/G, Magic 1s, and AIM-9Ls. This opens up many more approaches than simply running or avoiding said missile carriers for a safer one.
The additional 9Bs are marginal, yes. But a consistent weapon for other brick supersonics like Su-7s.
Gaijin has shown a thousand times they do not care about when this happens and hundreds of examples exist. BR compression is so bad at this point it makes more sense to keep them the same BR.
NOWHERE near as good as flares. Easily can have the missile track anyway. These are not equivalent to flares. It’s just a niche trick to use them to try to distract IR missiles that SOMETIMES can work. These also massively nerf the flight model while they’re equipped which is not good for the F-104.
Being 9.7 already fully negates any advantage you gained through being able to sometimes decoy missiles. The BRs are extremely compressed and you fight 1000x better aircraft in even half uptiers at this point.
Su-7 has no issue dodging a 9B
Yes and no. Sometimes they do care, sometimes they care too much, sometimes they care too little. But they have shown to care, at least when it comes to same-nation aircraft.
Agreed that it is not as good as flares, but with your straight line speed already as strong as it is, and your turn performance already in the dirt anyways, having them to protect against front-aspect 9Ls can be a lifesaver.
Agreed on the technical and performance of the plane being able to, but disagree in the sense that 90% of the players in these aircrafts will not dodge a 9B. Yeah it’ll kill an incompetent Su-7 player, but the majority of Su-7 pilots fall into that category.
Name any examples
No they haven’t. I can name a ton of examples.
Your acceleration and top speed are heavily nerfed by carrying rockets…it’s very relevant
I am not representing everyone. That is a bad faith claim that you made soley to try and slander me and discredit what I say. I am sharing what I have seen ingame.
What I have seen is not F-104s being untouchable or dominating lobbies. I’ve seen some F-104 players do well, but I’ve seen players of just about every usuable vehicle do well. From that, I can reasonable draw the conclusion that the F-104 is nothing special. I’ve also had experience both playing and fighting the F-104, and in both cases the F-104 performs poorly. I have not seen a single shred of evidence that suggests the F-104 is strong or undertiered. There’s a couple of noisy players on the forums whining about em, but that doesn’t really matter.
You can’t make the muh America mains argument either because China has F-104 aswell. The only logic based conclusion I can come to is it’s an issue unique to you and a small group of players.
That is completely and utterly false. You have done nothing but lie with statistics, and make assumptions of scenarios (which are unfounded and unlikely,) and tried to pass them as truth. You didn’t make these assumptions because they’re valid or have any reasonable factual basis, but because you wanted to believe them.
It’s nothing I “think.” It’s past experiences. I don’t think of experiences, I observe experiences. My experience is you’re struggling with something that others aren’t. Because you don’t want to accept that reality, you’re trying to shift blame off yourself and on to the F-104.
It’s not just surviving a missile, it’s surviving the only reliable counter to the 104C, as it will be by far the fastest plane in the match at 9.3 or 9.7.
…which would be the case for a 104C at 9.3.
It could not. It would be completely immune to all the good missiles that prevent it from doing whatever it wants.
These two planes are the exact same, except one gets flares and improved missiles. One step for each.
F-104G (China) and F-104G (Germany). One gets flares, the other doesn’t. One step difference with the same missiles.
Turn your afterburner off and they work just fine. Even the hot T-2 can dodge more than one AIM-9D in a row with them, which I’ve done.
How about a 9D or 9G? Which both 104A and C can meet.
Again, unless you show evidence showing the contrary, this is nothing but a word salad. I back up my past experience with good stats and statshark information (which is from the game). You only backed it with “trust me” and from what I see, your below-average stats and lack of experience in the BR bracket, which does not support your claim.
As an example, when I pointed out how F-104 can reliably outrun anyone post-nerf, and gave raw evidence to the fact, you said the equivalent of a “nuh uh”, and refused to elaborate. When we asked for evidence, you tell us to search for ourselves. For someone claiming other people engaging in bad faith arguments, you’re seeping to the knees in them.
The F-104C isn’t that fast, normal supersonic aircraft can easily intercept it anytime it has to change course. Aircraft that can’t catch it can just dance around all day not dying to it as well.
It’s balanced at 9.3.
Except for the massive differences such as having a real missile like the 9J… find better examples than this
Not how that works.
Such as…?
Almost as if I mentioned that.
9Es also have the same range as 9Ps.
It is.
Any supersonic aircraft?
You’re passing off the reason for the Hunter being 10.0 is because of flares AND AIM-9J. It’s really just because of missiles. If it was a 9B and Flare only hunter it would likely still be 9.3.
And? So?
Nah.