Why F104c is 9.7?! It should be lower!

The F-104C at 9.7 only carries four AIM-9B missiles. While four missiles sound like a lot, you’ll often never even get a chance to fire a single one, and even if you do manage to launch them, scoring hits is extremely tough.

Vehicles like the T-2 and F6C at the same battle rating offer comparable energy retention paired with far more agile airframes, plus they each come equipped with two AIM-9P missiles. I consistently pull two kills easily when flying the F6C.

Some players argue the F-104C’s blistering top speed lets it rush bases, justifying its overinflated BR. But here’s my counterpoint: if that’s its only purpose, doesn’t all the fun of flying this jet vanish entirely? Right now it’s effectively nothing more than a “glorified bomber”.Realistically, barely any aircraft at 10.0 can outpace it anyway—so why not just bump its battle rating up to 10.0 then lol?

2 Likes

Gaijin put this up because of napalm

3 Likes

Why should this be the same BR as some Sabres?

1 Like

muh MiG-21s with R-60s and the legit problem with 10.3 attackers, that’s how it is usually justified

1 Like

It outperforms the English Electric Lightning F.6 which is 9.3 in every single way, the F104 was 9.3 and it got moved up

Some Russia and Germany mains complained that it’s not a free kill so Gajin nerfed its FM to the point of unusability, then moved it to 9.7 for no reason.

It was nerfed because it was overperforming and someone found the documents to prove it.

Yes, it should be 9.3, the A should be 9.0 at least. They aren’t bad fighters in the right hands though. F-104J Eiko is easily one of my favorite jets in game aside from the Draken.

That is from a fighter perspective, but it can outrun everything even the missiles you mentioned, which is why it’s at the BR it’s at. You just can’t play it recklessly.

It should go down on paper, but you need to learn to play it properly, and the issue fades

The nerf did not match the documents in the slightest. The documents said the F-104 was pulling too many G’s, but instead of reducing G pull, they just screwed with its energy retention so the wings create like 7x more drag than they should.

If I remember it right, the document was talking about sustained turns by load factor (G) at different speeds. So of course the retention was lowered.

No

Yes. There are literally 9.0s, like the F4D-1, that are better than it.

The lightning turns better, and the redtops are better than AIM-9Bs.

I think the F-104C got moved up because it has napalm bombs and it’s the fastest bombing platform by far, even in a full uptier. Because reward efficiency was better on average, it went up.

The 2 extra AIM-9Bs aren’t a very big deal, considering the heavier F-104C turns even worse than the F-104A, its hard to get into any decent position to use them compared to most other platforms.

I don’t have a strong opinion on which BR it should be because those BRs are very compressed

2 Likes

The J35A is at the same BR with better maneuverability and worse guns. Same missile and amount…

I retract my statement after further investigation. Needs to stay 9.3. (I think they should both stay where they are though)

the lightning usually doesn’t have trouble catching F-104s, the lightning can dogfight quite handily, and the redtops are better than AIM-9Bs.

no, the F-104 doesn’t outperform the EEL in every single way

1 Like

I think the compression is what is hurting it the most, it would be fine if it didn’t have to face things with aim9gs all the time, but in a downtier it’s a bit broken because no one can catch you

The vehicle doesn’t make sense at 9.7 air to air wise. Pretty much everyone there gets the insane 18g missiles, while the f104c is stuck with 10g ones even if it has four. Maybe it’s good enough as a bomber which is why it was moved, who knows.

The f104s still get some hate as being this insane vehicle even two years after the huge reduction to their turning performance. It makes no sense; I guess because they’re common people still have this mindset. I think it’s still decent or even quite good, but definitely not super overpowered and needing 9.7 where the monster called the t2 lies.

Also, it’s not just a better lightning. The lightning turns better, and it’s red top is a noticeable upgrade over aim9b, featuring a much more generous ability to lock people from the sides, better turn, bigger warhead and proxy(I think), and radar slaving(pretty niche).

The 9.7-10.3 are much more problematic to other planes in a downtier than some of the 9.3 stuff. It’s pretty ridiculous they raised this instead of any of those. They could also easily make this rating range more balanced by moving everything 9.7 and up by a step.

Compression. Next!