Every poll made on this topic shows a ~70%+ support for TO to be added.
So, that means, a large part of the current playerbase would migrate to TO.
The rest, that remains in the “combined mode” would have more (in %) players that try to get to CAS af fast as possible.
So, everyone would try to get to cap points, get scouts, and kills to spawn in a plane.
From those, who can’t, some would leave, since they can’t get into a plane.
So, there would be just a very few players remaining in tanks. Those would be kiled really fast. They too would either leave, or spawn in CAS, if they had enough points.
Result?
The whole match would become an Air match after a few minutes ->no easy kill for CAS users in the ground.
While I am open to TO, the logistics of the mode have to be viable for it to be pursued. (This is why an ‘embedded’ trigger-queue option like Night battles that shares the player pool is appealing).
If TO tries to be its own separate mode, all indications are it’d suffer from player population issues…perhaps some areas like top tier would be popular while other tiers or eras would have “flat spots” where the matchmaker would struggle.
As TO hasn’t even generated sufficient interest to even see rallies among its supporters, concerns about its population and ability to support itself are well grounded.
It does amaze me how often TO advocates confuse the percentages of the polled as being percentages of the playerbase at large.
It’s Valentine’s Day, so let me explain your error this way:
You ask 3 people if they’ll go out with you
All 3 say no
100% of the polled responded with no.
100% of the polled =/= 100% of the population
Poll reflect the responses of those who respond, not everyone.
Do you understand your mistake now? (I haven’t even gotten into other vulnerabilities polls have either…)
You don’t pick a tank at the beginning of the match, you get one, there isn’t an option for anything else. (“Helicopters!”–not particularly relevant to AA).
no cost
I can spell the costs out for you if you’d like.
“Quake-esque”/“cheesy”
Quack quack. These words don’t mean much without any reasoning behind them, and you’ve missed some key elements that would make that reasoning worthwhile. Give me more reasoning. (Quake is generally not known for locking you out of a spawn option for multiple minutes if you make the wrong call, for example).
For those following along at home, the binocular esque cooldown (when no enemy aircraft are present) would allow you to gamble on intercepting a revenge bomber after you kill a likely opponent–if you guess right (that revenge CAS is now coming for you) you can catch them, while if you guess wrong you’ll be locked out of the option for several minutes.
Ultimately, we have to go back to the OP and ask what difference a TO game makes to those who like the current GRB game. I don’t play Arcade or Naval but I don’t have an issue with those games existing. They fragment the player base as any offshoot does so I don’t see that as an issue and obviously Gaijin don’t.
So the question remains, why do CAS lovers support the idea of GRB staying as it is with a very serious risk of CAS getting nerfed in the future as a strong possibility?
Well, I cannot see that. They are all dissimilar and existing. Naval and Helis being the last entrants, neither going particularly well. Having two almost identical modes is not quite the same is it? Now if TO provably (Gaijin knowledge not ours) would bring in a population not from WT to fully support said mode then sure, but it appears that population is already here, hence the unknown of how it might effect current. And aa mentioned catering to this niche opens up the noise of all other players who have requested varying modes (Eras, Classes, etc).
Many appear to try many modes, I know I did.
It is as varied as the number of players in game. Also they do not, as you can see from this and the Bone topic, all want to stay as it is. That “stay as it is” comes from the main voice in TO.
The nerfs are nof due to GFRB but ongoing data accumulation (eg rocket nerf then revert was due to data not people complaining; there is little evidence of WHY changes happen, hence my previous question to you as if you have info on reasoning I might have missed these details).
Thing being Morvan already answered very well the OP and subject, very early on.
I think that is an important point. How similar to standard GRB will TO GRB actually be ? Considering that all Arcade is the same game with a few tweaks.
Speculation but TO could be a surprisingly different game to GRB and it may not even give ULQ the reign of terror he is expecting. It may give rise to a new way of playing where the SP gun becomes the new king to replace CAS ,it may also give newer players a chance to get a foot in the door without having to keep an eye on the sky.
It could be shockingly different (or not).I don’t see it requiring any of the investment Naval took or gets but I think the positives to gaijin would be immense.
I dont think you address the question there. Why support a current path that is leading to CAS nerf. when you play CAS?
I respect Morvan generally on this forum, Somebody on my like list but really this is quite petty when you look at it. “Oh if they were nice to me I might agree with them”, really? Oh we don’t like ULQ so we will go against anything he suggests because its him?. The same friends taking sides regardless of the OP.
Its a debate buried under the cult of personality and getting the forum users nowhere.
I dont care if the forum tit makes a good point I will support it if I agree with it but that is just me.
I don’t think you addressed my questions to be honest. Its pretty straight. As a TO supporter and a flyer who is concerned about CAS nerf what is there to hate about TO existing?
See this is the positive I wish was focused upon rather than “CAS user bashing”.
The ability to have dynamic changes such as this would be interesting/enjoyable. TO not being the only option to pick from as there are other aspects this game could have invested in; I do not believe Gaijin have faith in their own ability/game to risk what appears to work for them and their investors.
As I was not limiting to just my thoughts/reasonings.
Also are CAS nerfed due to said reasons? Yet any proof other than feelings, unless there is Dev info on this which I have not seen or remembered. I feel they are not
I was more a CAP player (after tanks) in my latter years, not CAS. But yes, planes.
These “divisions” in my mind started with the toxicity of the early TO brigade, very early in the old forum, many do not even play anymore. So yes there can be friction, but if someone is being a bit of a douche and just making issues then people like ULQ will be called out for it and their ways of dragging out every discussion.
So Morvan helps explain where this starts to go wrong and I have covered it and tried to keep topics on track, long before you found the divisive topics.
The point is many commenting are not AGAINST TO, they just can get put off by the silly provactive comments.
Because someone drags out almost any discussion point. But at the end of the day many of us can still get along.
I did. You needed to justify your position clearer as I do not believe CAS has been nerfed to help ground users. That was what I needed clarifying first as is based on something I do not believe.
No that’s all good as far as I am concerned. I think we have underlined the fact that in terms of using the forum to better the game all of us fall into a trap of pointless bickering that simply allows Gaijin to continue with their own train of thought while shaking their heads in disbelief at the player base who can’t even agree what they want .
It reminds me of the scene from Braveheart where Wallace is trying to get the Scottish parliament to come together to fight the English but all they can do is descend into petty bickering, Wallace just walks away in disgust with his head in his hands.
Aight so real question. How is CAS abusing the game, but spawning an invulnerable AA isn’t? At least you can hit planes pretty much instantly from them spawning in, but CAS can’t deal with AAs that crop up immediately in range to shoot them down. Half the time even beginning an engagement from multiple km out to give guided munitions time to travel still doesn’t deal with the AA when the AA could quite easily have launched several missiles in that time frame.
Stuff really isn’t one sided. I’d probably just play air sim if they gave us actually threatening air defences in the mode. Plenty of stuff to deal with CAS, arguably the advantage to most AA against most CAS, except maybe the 16.
Sorry. Tank Only . Well to be more specific the removal of all CAS, all air from GRB.
Ground units only BUT keeping the old GRB as it is with CAS in place. A new version of the game that allows those who find CAS annoying to be free of it while allowing those who like CAS to continue to use it as they do currently.
Don’t really think this is at all wise. Completely voids the use of AA, or just makes people bitch until gun AAs won’t be useful in a mixed battle. Not to mention the whole people taking good positions are often only able to be addressed with CAS, and it will lead to worse and worse maps. If we can’t deal with entrenched players with CAS, they’ll remove any useful terrain. Fights will just be who has the least legitimate players, or Russia just rolling through as no one will really be able to hull down against them because having strong positions is problematic without cas.
Not to mention CAS is really not a problem, unless people didn’t bother to diversify their line up. I play both CAS and SPAA.
TO is the reason for the OP as far as I can see. He is saying, if you like the GRB game as it is then fine but why oppose a separate TO mode that really has nothing to do with you? It also means that there is no reason to nerf CAS or even attack CAS use and CAS users.
AA is only there for CAS but many do use SPAA to kill ground units. No CAS no real need to waste a space on SPAA unless you are using it to hunt the new influx of open SP gun that will arise due to the lack of CAS.
The idea of relying on CAS to make the game work is not really something Gaijin will admit to. I also have had games where we had no CAS and it was great. It was radically different. I am sure it will also have a different set of frustrations but doesn’t sim/naval or arcade?