Why do CAS players so vocally oppose any suggestions

Those are part of removing rage mechanics (revenge bombing) and empowering the counters (cap & fly).

Removing rage mechanics: remove kill cam, force runway spawn, delete close range helipad, move far helipad onto the plane runway complex, delete messages about teams capping zones which practically are “please bomb me” notifications to the other team.

In my eyes, an intentional revenge kill for any reason and with any unit type should not be encouraged. Sure, it’s bound to happen from time to time, but giving people everything they need to make it shamefully easy is bound to make salt fly.

Empowering the counters: giving short range lead marker to SPAA which lack radar, undoing missile controllability nerfs for SAMs, making Stingers & Starstreaks work, removing all ability for SAMs to be detonated by incoming ordinance, giving back full HVAP/AP/APDS belts for SPAA, removing tiny shell count limits on high tier SPAA APDS/APFSDS, copying Naval’s idea of default BR-appropriate planes being automatically in everyone’s deck for Fighters, CAS, and possibly SPAA/SAMs, and using Simulator’s SP system of 1000SP at game start with no “earning” ability.

The issue with aircraft is that they are treated as powerups via the SP system, when their best counter is and always will be each other, with SPAA/SAMs as a backup. Hence to solve cap & fly you make air no longer a powerup so that it no longer matters which side has the dumbest cap rushing crap. A purely A2A fighter will smash a CAS-loaded plane every time, and get to useful speed/altitude/both much faster. That gives people the counter to CAS they need. Copying naval’s idea ensures everyone has some version of counter ready to use by default, so nobody can enter into a round totally defenseless any longer.

Would require AI AA as ships have ;)

Not to mention SB SP system showing real problems, try to play top tier SB and we can talk then ;)

The only way to play this game is to soak up all the bad points and just get on with it.

If you can enter the game with that frame of mind then you will succeed otherwise the game gets turned off in a rage after two minutes. Its the player not the game in many ways.
What makes any player play ten games in a row one day and not face one game the next? Same player, same game, same shit.

Except direct comparison to SB is pretty unfair, given the vast skill barrier difference between controlling guided CAS weapons vs piloting fighters to shoot them down.

In RB, using fighters to shoot down CAS would be about as easy as using such guided CAS currently is, which means that provided the average player bothers to learn the tools, they would be able to defend their team.

All my suggestions do is put the tools in the players’ hands. Their choice to use them or not, but now that they have everything they need, they have no excuse to complain how “overpowered” CAS supposedly is.

The arguments on the topic then rapidly collapse when its detractors no longer have any real counterpoints left. Sure, they can always say “but I don’t wanna!” which can only be countered with “#skillissue

1 Like

Oh believe me, I just shake my head and laugh most of these days. I just want this nonsensical cyclical argument, which only threatens to damage the whole game further the longer it goes on, to end already. It’s already led to considerable collateral damage in other game modes over the years - a bomb nerf that makes sense here has the annoying tendency to make Air RB Light Pillboxes unkillable, for example.

Revenge killing still annoys me, not gonna lie. Sometimes I feel forced to spawn-kill the guy I just killed until his whole lineup is metallic paste so then I can actually flank around the front line without fear of being shot in the rear. If I could just capture their spawn zone like a cap to shut it down instead, I would.

1 Like

Indeed–and this is why Fighters First is another strategy to that end.

If there’s another option to air defense at the start, there’s fewer excuses for breakthroughs in the defense later (except for simple defeats).

I would go even further by saying all planes should be first-spawn options.

The reason is that so long as any weapon is locked behind a SP wall, one side will get it up before the other, who then will whine about being on the receiving end of it. By democratizing access to all of it, making SPAA & SAMs a hell of a lot more effective & easy to use, and giving all users default planes in their decks like Naval does, all any player will need is the willpower to go use said plethora of tools.

Can’t have a “tank-only mode” argument when there are no longer any “tank-only players,” after all…

1 Like

Allow CAP (fighters/aircraft without ground attack) to arcade air-battle spawn (but with RB SP cost) and allow you to return to your tank after landing at the airfield after doing so.

Only allow CAP arcade spawn when there’s enemy aircraft. Instead of activating/deactivating the ability (which would tip players off to the presence of enemy CAS), give a lengthy cooldown (minutes) when activated when no enemy aircraft are present.

Nothing would change for people wanting to play tanks as the answear would be the same as it is now, aka „don’t play a tank You want to play, but instead X”.

So things would get better only for people wanting to use the air in first place.

If You just want a better Air RB, You should make suggestions there ;)

1 Like

People would remain free to choose tanks if they wish–nothing stops them from doing so.

The combined arms mode is for all vehicles, so expanding player’s freedom of choice wouldn’t detract from anyone.

If all RB GFs players had the aircraft tokens (as in NFs), it would be strictly a matter of player choice.

If they chose to forego these things then at that point, all consequences for that action/inaction would be entirely upon the player.

There is No point in creating another płace for people who just want to use air as Air modes are in game.

If You want air modes to get better, make suggestions there.

This matter is about expanding vehicle access is simply giving players more freedom of choice…which is fundamental in the CA mode.

The air modes are separate, unrelated and off-topic.

If You want to expand people freedom of choice, then first advocate for them to be able to play without air in the battle.

I have already explained multiple times how first allowing that would allow the current Ground RB to be turned into true combined game mode.

3 Likes

Basically, becuase it would take away their fun.

Every poll made on this topic shows a ~70%+ support for TO to be added.

So, that means, a large part of the current playerbase would migrate to TO.
The rest, that remains in the “combined mode” would have more (in %) players that try to get to CAS af fast as possible.
So, everyone would try to get to cap points, get scouts, and kills to spawn in a plane.
From those, who can’t, some would leave, since they can’t get into a plane.
So, there would be just a very few players remaining in tanks. Those would be kiled really fast. They too would either leave, or spawn in CAS, if they had enough points.
Result?
The whole match would become an Air match after a few minutes ->no easy kill for CAS users in the ground.

1 Like

A few people who are agaist adding TO have agreed with that.

1 Like

Who? I am curious.

I’ll try to find it when I’ll be on my PC

1 Like

While I am open to TO, the logistics of the mode have to be viable for it to be pursued. (This is why an ‘embedded’ trigger-queue option like Night battles that shares the player pool is appealing).

If TO tries to be its own separate mode, all indications are it’d suffer from player population issues…perhaps some areas like top tier would be popular while other tiers or eras would have “flat spots” where the matchmaker would struggle.

As TO hasn’t even generated sufficient interest to even see rallies among its supporters, concerns about its population and ability to support itself are well grounded.

It does amaze me how often TO advocates confuse the percentages of the polled as being percentages of the playerbase at large.

It’s Valentine’s Day, so let me explain your error this way:

  • You ask 3 people if they’ll go out with you
    • All 3 say no
    • 100% of the polled responded with no.

100% of the polled =/= 100% of the population

Poll reflect the responses of those who respond, not everyone.

Do you understand your mistake now? (I haven’t even gotten into other vulnerabilities polls have either…)

3 Likes

You picked a tank. You get the benefits and drawbacks of picking a tank. If you had this Quake-esque option, it would pretty much eliminate a major drawback for no cost.

The ideal way is to give people access to counters that work, encourage them to use them, but not in a cheesy way like how AB does it.

Right now SPAAG & SAMs are mostly in a spotty messy place. Few examples such as the Strela and Pantsir being exceptionally good.

And then you’re forced to cap rush yourself to get a fighter up early on before the CAS arrives. You shouldn’t have to go do that just to defend your team reliably.

Precisely. Before said player can whine with any shred of justification, they must first answer why they aren’t bothering to use or even learn the now-available and easy-to-use counters. And any form of “but I don’t wanna play X” isn’t good justification, which is the point.

That being said though, I think SPAAG below radar tiers are in a really bad place. Average players do not know where, much less when, to open fire. Planes can spot AA from miles away even when they don’t spray uselessly from far off. AA cower in their spawns due to overkill nerfs to their AP belts in either composition or capacity. And any AA firing steady bursts screams “free kill” to every tank on the map. Hence why so many proposed changes to make these things better to use.

1 Like