Ah yes. Because “do thing X to slightly mitigate CAS supremacy”, when “thing X” isn’t even possible on a lot of maps and ignores various circumstances, enemy ground vehicles and other things is totally you being “charitable” and sharing your great wisdom as a CAS main with the unwashed ground masses. Because the problem lies with them, not with you. You are solely succeeding because of your great skill, as you fight an uphill battle from the weaker position.
Anyone who disagrees is just “refusing to listen”. Great way to hand wave away anyone who doesn’t agree with you.
Don’t sit in Spawn. Which is great advice, on maps bigger than let’s say Japan, Advance on the Rhein, Mozdok, and so on. Because guess what, often times the moment you “move” out of spawn on those maps you are in direct contact with enemy ground or can be shot at from miles away. Which minorly mitigates the problem of CAS immediately spotting you and opens a whole new can of worms.
Because MAP design absolutely sucks and many of them are way too small. Even on “bigger” maps such as Hürtgen, moving out of spawn means you can be shot from across the map by enemy ground units. So he refuses to acknowledge that SPAA are caught often times between a rock and a hard place.
Use a building as cover, hide in a forest, or behind some rocks. Which once again. Is great advice if those things exist on that map, are easily available, won’t directly get you in line of sight of enemy ground. Because there are few maps with “convenient empty forests you can use as cover”.
Ignores that often times high tier CAS can still easily spot you anyway, and unless they are flying super low can shoot over many obstacles in this game because most aren’t the height of Sun City buildings. Oh and bonus points, those trees? They will likely hurt you more when trying to lock onto CAS, find it, and actually shoot at it. For buildings you need to know from which direction the enemy is actually coming for you to use it as cover. And it blocks your shots and guidance just as much as theirs.
His advice is basically. “If you take a ton of risks, expose yourself to enemy ground, and are more aware, have faster reactions, and massively outplay CAS then you can beat bad CAS players.”
if You don’t play ground units like You wanted from the beginning and from the whole discussion originated from, You migh have a chance!
It is always amazing to see the mental gymnastick of changes they propose to the mode that everyone “enjoys” rather than admitting that a new mode just for tanks would solve the problem.
I never understood the “Use forests as a way to hide yourself” argument.
Yes, it will hide you from jets, but at the same time it will hide them from you.
You could argue that, however consider the following: Somewhat recently I did a match at 11.3 GRB and in the middle of it I destroyed one of the Centauro “light tanks”. I thought nothing of it until a guided bomb landed on my roof - something my medium tank had absolutely ZERO counterplay available.
I immediately respawned in the Type 81, turned on the seeker, and looked to the skies. The killcam hadn’t been very helpful, it just showed the sky and some nondescript land far away.
For the entirety of the spawn protection, I looked all around but couldn’t find the AMX that had bombed me previously. If the very good seeker passed over the AMX, it was either not lockable or behind some tiny cloud that somehow makes it impossible to lock. In any case, aircraft that are far enough away just de-render when you don’t have a search radar, and since I didn’t see him he was likely invisible anyway.
Not even five seconds after spawn protection ran out, another bomb.
So I thought, if I can’t shoot him down, I’ll just avoid the bomb. This is a city map after all (Breslau) so I’ll take the Type 16, zigzag between some buildings, and deploy smoke here and there.
It didn’t matter. His bomb landed on top of me despite being in the best possible situation (fast vehicle + smoke + city map for cover) and more importantly, being AWARE of the situation.
Since I had been busy playing the game instead of wanking in some bush at the edge of the map, I couldn’t spawn the fighter in my lineup. Too many deaths in tanks had caused my air superiority fighter to become outright unaffordable, and there was zero counterplay possible.
So tell me then, what exactly was I supposed to do against someone that can sit 1) somewhere well above our spawn, 2) be outright invisible and/or un-lockable, 3) knows exactly where I am at all times, choosing to go for an easy, freshly spawned, PREDICTABLE target, and finally 4) has no difficulties hitting a fast moving target regardless of cover, which in this case was well above average?
The only “winning move” here was to quit to hangar after the first bomb.
And to address your reply exactly, who am I going to blame here?
-Gaijin, who did what many players wanted, and gave italy a capable CAS aircraft exactly as they had requested?
-OR the player who fairly died once and then decided he was not only gonna revenge bomb, but also spawncamp and do it in such a way that he was absolutely invulnerable?
A while ago they modified how ATGMs fly, I believe beforehand the missile would spawn directly on your crosshair, kind of “ignore gravity” a bit, and fly in a very effective way that I can best describe as “seeming like a very early coding implementation of how a missile would work”.
They later changed ATGM flight code to be much more in-line with physics, maybe too much, this was the era where TOWs & LOSAT missiles would eat the dirt so often after firing. Lately, they’ve found a middle ground that is more reasonable.
Maybe the performance of laser-guide bombs/AGMs/etc could have their flight performance (hence effectiveness) “tuned” in this way. Made more wonky like SPIKEs or LOSAT missiles so they don’t connect as often.
Chances are, they’ll still spot you. Given they’re up there, have much better zoom, the funny “eye” mechanic when someone gets spotted, etc. While you likely won’t see them.
If you’re playing Japan at that tier, you have an LWS telling you a bomb is coming. Not even one of those fancy Laser+IOG+GNSS bombs that you can’t smoke. Just pop smoke and chill.
Regarding the argument, you admitted yourself that the fight was asymetric and favored planes, and you didn’t really adress the issue of the map size.
As many pointed out, tree cover goes both way, and hiding in a forest is a really nice way to render yourself effectively useless. There’s a reason SAM radar are often placed in high areas.
So you basically have to find a place that is in cover but which gives you a clear LOS to cover the largest possible area of the sky, talk about an unsolvable equation.
Surprisingly enough, a few spots can allow you to combine both, but they are extremely limited, and you can basically forget about relocating
Moving, while we are on it, is an extremely bad piece of advice, and makes me wonder if you have actual experience playing them. It’s easier for an airbone threat to spot you (movement catches the eye’s attention, it’s not just a movie quote) and makes you unable to fire for most AA, or messes up your aim if you are lucky. I will concede it can work for F&F IR spaa around 9 to 10.0
Playing a high BR spaa works well for me like this :
find a SOLID piece of cover against tanks, hidden from the battlefield but with a bit of height (and decent 360 coverage) and that can see the enemy aircraft spawn (note that this isn’t possible on every map)
if an AGM is fired at you and you have a good solid cover, not exposed to enemy tanks, hide behind, and waste his missile. If you have smoke, smoke, but do it early, otherwise, intercept the missile. If you can’t do any of those things, GG, you got outskilled
Now that i think of it, i think i’ll post my spots when i have some time.
I won’t pretend it’s universal advice that will give you absolute power, but maybe it can at least ease the pain a bit
Not necessarily: it is a tier 3 modification, and in any case wouldn’t have helped since he could just guide his bomb into the smoke. I don’t remember getting a laser warning, so either I didn’t have it or the LWS doesn’t detect enemies straight above.
Don’t even need to explain why this is one of the worst anti-CAS ideas out there.
Not quite as bad as the previous idea, but there’s literally not a single reason for Gajin to do it from a business standpoint.
That would worsen the problem.
This makes absolutely 0 sense, and is probably just a sad cope.
The idea that CAS is played for the sake of grinding air is a logical fallacy, as it’s completely false.
I do 100% support ARB EC, but not because it would solve the CAS issue (it wouldn’t), rather, it would simply be a better model for an ARB mode.
CAS players (there’s no such thing as a CAS “main” that’s just a sad cope) like to be rewarded for getting hundreds or thousands of spawn points that they wouldn’t be able to spend otherwise.
Absolutely this, the ‘CAS mains’ label is just a villification method used to degrade and make out that they’re ‘mean’ and ‘abusing the mechanic’ because someone got bombed.
There’s also no battle without logistics. Should players in air mode have to fly cargo planes or drive supply trucks before they can reload and repair their planes?
I doubt it would ever happen but the argument that CAS is an issue in reality has always been a poor argument in my opinion. There are a ton of concessions made for the game. A tank only mode would hardly be the biggest concession.
I personally believe the same way that spookston does, that cas just needs a nerf so it costs more sp to spawn in planes. It is too easy right now, and this is what results in the frustration in the community. ground players do not hate cas as an idea, but rather just how low skill it can be for someone to spawn in a light vehicle and cap a point early in the game, or even just get an assist, and be able to bomb you. No, we don’t need more spaa, we don’t want to deter from this aspect of the game, just make it so players have to show a bit more effort to be rewarded with such an easy kill.