Why do CAS players so vocally oppose any suggestions

Game Discussion Realistic Battle
3496

And none of those have any bearing on this… Remember, we started off with the angle of one player, not getting kills, you then brought in every player on the team getting kills, to then now, assists because no-one else will get kills…

You’re just trying too hard to avoid the point that someone can actually ‘win’ the match by being the person who caps, without getting any kills, whilst being able to scout, help repair, call out targets and threats, and all the rest, because you can’t admit that there’s other ways to play the game than to just getting kills, to reenforce this ignorant take that KDR is the prime ‘check’ on the stats to tell if a player is ‘worthy’ of comment on the thread.

There are no maps without cover, that’s a perception and ignorance issue.

If they have smoke, then they should get it… The other tactics that you just dismissed they can also do…

Maybe you’re that skillless and ignorant that you truly can’t find a tree for the forest, but that doens’t detract from the point I made.

Nothing to do with this, there’s still cover and areas to be in to defend.

I honestly feel that everyone in these threads, overly pushes and makes out that gaijin are doing it to punish them and make it harder to make everyone pay more and all that septic nonsense because deep down they know they aren’t going to get what they want so then they can literally dare Gaijin to do it, proclaiming that ‘If they cared, they’d do this to fix the game’ to wind up a decent portion of ignorant players to try and make change, like the old review antics, and all that.

Honestly, people aren’t bad for getting you, it’s part of the game. The devs don’t need to cut everything off at the kneecaps just because you can’t handle it. Kills aren’t everything in the game and statcards aren’t completely the be-all and end-all of arguments borne from discussions…

This whole issue is commonly a mindset issue, and it comes to be that anything opposing this afflicted stance, makes everyone go Greta Thurnburg and ‘How dare you?!’ checks stats ‘Oh you’re trash’ simplistic.

3497

Capping clear caps after enemies have been curb stomped is a child’s play. You just stand inside a chalk circle.

Many maps offer zero hard cover from above.

Yes, hiding in a “dense” forest will surely cut it.

Less available spots = less spots pilot will need to check = more chances you’ll get spotted

Gaijin ignoring game modes and maps for literal decade in favor of just spamming out vehicles is a clear indication they are fine with some things being barely playable.

Once more, getting killed isn’t an issue here.
Getting killed by something you had zero means to counter in your current vehicle is.

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3498

Again, nothing to do with the effort and actual goal of doing what needs to be done rather than second guessing and deciding all is lost because of your opponent, or that your team is trash because they haven’t got any kills.

‘Many maps’… No.

It was the phrase ‘Can’t spot the forest for the trees’ that I was alluding to, and if you didn’t pick up on that, then maybe there is no saving you.

This, again, is a perception issue.

Nope.

Oh but it IS, hence why people are all so up in the fact of how CAS impacts them…

You ignore the counter and the ability to stay alive though to embolden your complaint that there’s nothing to be done to counter anything and everything posed to you.

Again, stop ignoring the point so much so you have to produce all these other scenarios and wonderful ‘They can’t possibly stand to a plane’ nonsense.

3499

Considering kills are the thing that makes your team progress, not getting any is a bit of a proof they might be worse than the enemies.

Actually yes.

It wasn’t referred to that.
You said you can hide in a building, forest or pop smoke. So without any smokes your best bet is to hide in a dense forest.

It’s simple math actually.

It’s my fault for trying to discuss this with a guy that barely touched large parts of the game.

You can’t counter aircraft with most ground vehicles, which is the problem here.
Staying alive while running and hiding from a monster you can’t touch seems like fun, especially in a PvP setting.

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3500

I wholeheartedly disagree as that is the most simplistic take on the entire game, for the sake of just flexing stats as key… There’s a number of stats that aren’t actually shown. One of which is capping, another is assists. Both of these are another 2 vital things, other than kills, that affect the tickets, and the overall match.

This also ignores teamwork by random people to make things actually work, as well as the teams enthusiasm overall.

This is really why I stay in the lower teirs.

3501

Of course he does. If he attacked You from an angle You can’t shoot at, then You are unable to kill him.

Here we go… sorry but that kind of talk ends with air modes being in Game

Can be played in combined mode. Nothing needs TK be changed

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3502

And both require someone doing the killing.

Don’t be the burden to Your team, don’t make others do the job You should.

3503

Your overwhelming desire to label me a detriment and a burden to my team is as ignorant as ever, and thus shows that you’re a one-trick pony…

Unfortunately I’ve explained this so many times that it’s clear you are closed to discussion or taking on board anything, so therefore you must be absolutely messing with me to be this dense and moronic…

There’s no other way that you can keep peddling this nonsense, time and time again, without you being blatantly ignorant to the rest of the game and the methods of ‘winning’ that don’t even require you to get a kill, thus your KDR pride is misplaced.

3504

I don’t desire to do something, it is just how things are as You talk about it.

If You require people do to things for You, it only means that You are a burden and not needed in a team.

But You have already admitted that someone else needs to do the killing other than You, meaning that again in order to win kills need to be made and You are a burden because someone else has to do that for You.

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3505

The thing about cap that it can be decapped , the thing about assit is you can’t kill stuff , a heavily damage tank that can shoot meaning a tank that can kill your teammate.

Because you afraid what top tier might bring and your world view is nothing more than a local puddle instead of anything else. All you do is cherry picking and hope people agreeing with you , which no one is lmao. Peak pathertic

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3506

There’s a logical falacy if I’ve ever come across one… I hold my opinion, and my stance. I don’t see where you think that I’m cherry picking… Maybe you think that because I don’t quote and split everything that it’s not being acknowledged, but that’s perfectly fine.

It’s actually desperation that drives someone to split the entire posts up into segments, posting pages upon pages of filler and nonsense whataboutisms.

But it’s alright if you truly don’t understand it, that just shows the class of actual engagement that comes from you, and how genuine you are about discussion and conveyance, compared to throwing out mockery and deriding someone as being bad because that guy said so, and you interpreted the stats in that same manner solely because you are looking for a dig to jab them.

Nothing here is even worth breaking down. You’ve taken no notice of what was said, you came in here with

And that shows your issue is your issue.

There’s nothing ‘Cope’ about my stance, and least of all I actually have no ill feelings towards any other players, just because they’re the opposition or in something I don’t like, unlike you.

Which leads me to wonder, have you taken my name as having ‘Flying’ in it, and prejudiced me?

3507

This guy should have just git gut, there was so much he could do at that moment to not die to me

shot 2024.11.28 21.57.51
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Not to mention that in that game they spawned a lot of SPAA later leading to their defeat. One plane would be enough.

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3508

They aren’t shown for a good reason. Assists literally cannot exist without kills, so it’s clear what action is much more important. They are also given out pretty leniently and in vehicles that have scout option you can even get two out of one enemy vehicle.

Speaking of caps, plenty of maps/modes combos have “free” caps for each team, so tracking that is also way less important. Contested caps are unobtainable without making kills, so yet again, kills eclipse capping.

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3509

We need to remember what Gaijin have said about this game:

“As War Thunder is primarily a PvP focused game and getting kills is the ultimate goal to win battles…”

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3510

I win 60 % of my matches only by playing air cancer.
Its stupidely easy

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3511

@MotorolaCRO, I would respond to your previous reply to me…except it’s is now buried in the literal hundreds of new comments posted in the last 48 hours. I don’t see any point wading back in to find that exchange except to say that I disagreed with your contentions about RB AFs and what “combined” refers to in WT.

RB AFs has been and is a combined arms mode as-is, with AI forces in place because it’d be futile mechanically to have players on the ground (they don’t have the attention span for what player GFs in AFs modes would entail).

Most players (particularly WoT imports focused devoutly on GFs) don’t have the interest or patience to setup in the AFs modes as SPAAs as you’ve suggested. That, among other reasons, is why the SPAAs in AFs modes get laughed at…it’s just not viable for a variety of reasons, mechanical and player-side.

I contemplated a grand CA mode with RB AFs/GFs meshed in a populous set of battles on one stage with some divides and some overlaps. However, given the failure of World War mode and RB EC, I doubt an RB AF + GFs setup as described there will ever turn up.

RB GFs as-is is likely the realization of what CA will look like in WT; given its popularity, Gaijin has little reason to deviate from it either.

3512

I appreciate your attempts at humor, but you’re mistaken for three reasons:

  1. A tank being killed by an aircraft is not a game problem…that’s what WT is all about

    • WT is a combined arms game with aircraft & tanks as combatants; fights between air and ground units are expected

  2. A loss due to poor vehicle mixture (ex. “too many SPAAs”) is a player/team issue, not a game problem

  • The ability to read matches’ direction and momentum matters; while players/teams can be forgiven for poor mixtures upon initial spawns (due to a lack of spawn screens and despawn points (which should be added)), not so with respawns…they can see the roster and conditions

If a team bungles their spawn choices terribly later on, the responsibility for the loss that follows is entirely on them–especially if they were faced with just ‘one aircraft’ to respond to.

Although I know you are thrilled about hyping up how aircraft are, we both know they’re not so potent as you portray (as statistics have repeatedly shown and proven). Bluntly: CAS hype is a hoax.

  1. All players (and their teams) can make preparations to prevent their defeats (by selection the proper unit for themselves/their team)–whether they succeed or not is up to how well they play

    • Again, this ties into the ability to read the match and monitoring the team roster is an important part of this (first spawns should be delayed for an initial choices screen).

Nowadays, TO’s two best ways forward are these:

Spoiler

Fighters First:

If we had Fighters First implemented, the above point on preparations would only be made truer by giving players more freedom of choice. Teams would have more protection options (in the form of defensive fighters) while losing nothing (all existing first spawn choices would be retained); associated changes I’d want to see attached to FF’s implementation would be despawn points for GFs and AFs with SP rebates.

Trigger queue:

The novel ‘trigger queue’ idea is another avenue to TO, but that has never been seriously explored (or even discussed) in recent years. All things considered, that “submode” approach was an extremely practical way to get TO around most (if not all) of its needs yet the idea has seen hardly any interest.

Also: stop hogging War Thunder for Nintendo 64–when is that going to release?

3513

It is a problem with balance as a player in a ground unit can’t do anything about it. He can’t change his vehicle into SPAA (if that even had a chance, or a plane).

If You don’t understand such simple thing after so many posts and discussions, there is no point in replying.

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3514

Eh…your images there do not make the case you seem to believe they do:

  • 4 guys managing to get themselves killed by a 250kg bomb indicates they had no spacing discipline and made themselves vulnerable to enemy attack (a large HE shell and ammo rack or artillery barrage could have had similar results)

  • Multiple Wirbelwinds failing to kill a D4Y3 is embarrassing to them

    • If you were within their effective range, they missed you…thus they were simply defeated

    • If you bombed from high altitude at the edge of/beyond their effective range, that’d take a far more setup and aiming to achieve success (each easily open to undercutting by enemy/friendly action)…nothing improper about that. Again, they were simply defeated

  • The presence of at least one enemy fighter (P-51) and your success against it is a humiliation for that fighter…either he was incompetent, AFK or not trying. That was another means to prevent your successes that didn’t see realization by the opposing team.

All in all, I concur with the others: that was just a lousy enemy team, not an example of any particularly powerful CAS.

3515

Players have the option to select the vehicles they choose–with all of their capabilities and limitations. That is the tacit deal you are making when you select a vehicle. It’s a package deal: you get you vehicles strengths and its weaknesses, whatever those might be. (Most SPAAs are not great breakthrough vehicles for instance)

For mutual support, there are teammates and you/they may vary your/their choices for the sake of the general team’s capability. (This is why the addition of a team roster that shows you first spawn selections prior to team spawning would be great…same thing with despawn points and SP rebates for GFs, I’ve suggested these things)

As I’ve previously explained before too, tanks can dodge most air attack attempts with smart maneuvering and good handling. No attack is a guaranteed success and its defeatist to believe such things. (If you’d like me to give you pointers on how to handle your tank in such scenarios, PM me)

I appreciate your attempt at humor, but again you’re mistaken. My understanding of this is fine (to be honest, it’s actually more advanced than your own). While I’d happy to tutor you (via PM), you have nothing to offer me (besides WT for N64).

As @JuicyKuuuuki has related and other data has validated, the number of tank kills ascribed to CAS sits at less than 20% (often nearer to 10%)…a far cry from what CAS hype pretends things to be. CAS hype is a hoax…dying to aircraft more than occasionally just doesn’t happen as a rule.

If you’re going to be upset about getting outplayed and defeated, try to avoid deaths altogether. Barring that, focus on what’s likelier to kill you (other tanks!)…that’s how you can really reduce your demises. The improved situational awareness will inevitably prevent your deaths from enemy air attacks along the way too, even if passively.

As I said, if you want me to advise and help you more send me a PM. (Likewise, how does one get the WT for N64 beta?)