Why do CAS players so vocally oppose any suggestions

[Pale_Horse_Rider]

@RunaDacino

Airfield spawns, not air spawns.

Might risk being easy to camp, but not wholly unreasonable.

@RunaDacino

mean time between bomb drops take ~5 minutes

This might be a bit too much, the games last only so long and you don’t want people to spend half the match flying to and from the airfield, though I could see moving them back a bit more than they are now.

@RunaDacino

Make CAP be able to progress ground-trees

If this happens it needs to be toggle-able like with Helicopter XP. Some people do not want to play ARB at all and still need a way to gain plane research when playing GRB with CAS/CAP planes. It may not be as effecient as ARB but its still RP gained.

@RunaDacino

Fill SPAA gaps. Having to use a oversized drunken & pregnant cow of a truck at 7.7 britain with very long reloads to fight jets is an exercise in significant frustration

Wholly agree. You can check my post history and see that I’ve repeatedly argued for the Falcon to be moved down to 7.7 where it RIGHTFULLY BELONGS. Unfortunately for some nations there just aren’t SPAA options for those gaps.

@RunaDacino

Only thing I can see is some people might consider flying for 1-2 minute as “too much”, but it’s Realistic battles, not arcade.

Half the sheer time consumption and half the simple fact that if it takes that long to get to the battle the guy you want to revenge bomb will be harder to find or might have died. And before you make a point against revenge bombing keep in mind that the game encourages revenge kills with the Eye for Eye bonus so its clearly meant to be part of the game.

Anyway my point about custom lobbies stands because there are plenty of people in this thread who do not share your CAS reform views and are vehemently anti-CAS Tank Only advocates. For those people a series of well organized, routinely populated, custom lobbies would be a boon.

@FlyingDoctor

Ha, like anyone will play the custom lobbies to show this because it doesn’t give them rewards…

If it provides the Tank Only experience they want then playing them despite the lack of the rewards sends a powerful message to Gaijin.

[PercussionCap]

@ZendikarHaven

so its rather like expecting a Ki-10 to fight a Morko-Morraine or P-39

That’s not the worst situation i can imagine…

[ZendikarHaven]

@Pale_Horse_Rider

Wholly agree. You can check my post history and see that I’ve repeatedly argued for the Falcon to be moved down to 7.7 where it RIGHTFULLY BELONGS. Unfortunately for some nations there just aren’t SPAA options for those gaps.

*Assuming it gets SP changes, since lets be real a lot of SPAA needs this.

[FlyingDoctor]

@Pale_Horse_Rider

If it provides the Tank Only experience they want then playing them despite the lack of the rewards sends a powerful message to Gaijin.

Yea, but be realistic… These guys aren’t going to do that…

There’s no way they’ll sit in the lobbies enough to maintain the population for Gaijin to note lol.

[RunaDacino]

@FlyingDoctor

And that’s where you squading would be something to go for…

Yes, I don’t want to squad.

The people I’m comfortable using voice chat with are not interested in warthunder.

And I’m not comfortable doing VC with people other than this group.

And I shouldn’t need to squad to begin with. I can fly perfectly fine and effectively without ever squadding up using just “Follow me!” “Cover me” “Attention to grid square” and acrobatic smoke.

Why should I be forced to squad to play 20 minute matches with my centurions?

[БЕИ]

@RunaDacino

Authoritive experience with the Bosvark, too as support truck for 7.7 british ground lineups:

His experience might not be the best, not sure why he still thinks he is qualified to tell other players how they should play, furthermore telling others who perform 3-4x better than him to get better lol when his record says he has over 40,000 matches but the number looks like someone who just got the game like one month ago

Typical CAS main who rush cap like a headless chicken then gets blown up

[両儀_式]

@FlyingDoctor

That’s you throwing shade…

@艦むす愛好家

If you have experienced CAS at all tier it will help bolster your point and bigger understanding. But all you have is WW2 vehicle being spammed and barely experience at cold war and the newest stuff

Read

@FlyingDoctor

They’re flying past at least 600kmh, and they’re passing the field at any rate, so trying to find you isn’t a straight forward ‘They see me’…

They can see you , especially when they get air spawn , with just one quick scan and they can see your whole team without you noticing it. This is why I said you have nothing to back your point up cause you a low BR seal clubber. Not because you are a bad player. Then again , CAS can see EVERYTHING , not to mention they got thermal , you are not hidding.

[ZendikarHaven]

@БЕИ

His experience might not be the best, not sure why he still thinks he is qualified to tell other players how they should play, furthermore telling others who perform 3-4x better than him to get better lol when his record says he has over 40,000 matches but the number looks like someone who just got the game like one month ago

In fairness i’m an AB player, sooo yeah. Go after the argument, not the person.

[Pale_Horse_Rider]

@ZendikarHaven

*Assuming it gets SP changes, since lets be real a lot of SPAA needs this.

I think for all SPAAs with the option to take belts that are exceptionally effective against tanks those belts should add to the SP cost.

[MotorolaCRO]

@FlyingDoctor

‘team’ that had 0 kills, where we’re talking of one player on a team, having no kills… That shows your argument is flawed, horribly.

Having 0 kills and getting carried by your team isn’t really fun experience in a PvP game.

@FlyingDoctor

The other half of what you quoted had the solution then… Squad with someone who does…

That’s not a solution.
Solution has to be in my own hands, with my own vehicles.

@FlyingDoctor

Just because something is killing you, doesn’t mean it’s unfair or uncounterable.

Tell me then how much of a chance does that Japanese TD I posted earlier stand against aircraft ?

[両儀_式]

I don’t think this will help , since 90% of the SPAA are bad against tank and most of them can’t contest cap or do anything much. If anything raising CAS SP across the board should be the best option along with fixing map

[FlyingDoctor]

@RunaDacino

Yes, I don’t want to squad

Shoot yourself in the foot then…

@RunaDacino

The people I’m comfortable using voice chat with are not interested in warthunder.

And I’m not comfortable doing VC with people other than this group.

You don’t need voice chat to squad.

@RunaDacino

And I shouldn’t need to squad to begin with.

It’s a team game so regardless, you are part of it.

@RunaDacino

I can fly perfectly fine and effectively without ever squadding up using just “Follow me!” “Cover me” “Attention to grid square” and acrobatic smoke.

You’re still dying to planes though…

@RunaDacino

Why should I be forced to squad to play 20 minute matches with my centurions?

Again, you’re not forced, but your choice not to, leaves you at a loss.

@БЕИ

His experience might not be the best, not sure why he still thinks he is qualified to tell other players how they should play, furthermore telling others who perform 3-4x better than him to get better lol when his record says he has over 40,000 matches but the number looks like someone who just got the game like one month ago

It doesn’t mean that when someone says to play different, that they haven’t got a better suggestion than just not trying…

@БЕИ

Typical CAS main who rush cap like a headless chicken then gets blown up

Someone has to do it, otherwise we’ll just have everyone sitting back trying to snipe so they don’t die like precious KDR elitists…

@艦むす愛好家

They can see you , especially when they get air spawn , with just one quick scan and they can see your whole team without you noticing it. This is why I said you have nothing to back your point up cause you a low BR seal clubber. Not because you are a bad player. Then again , CAS can see EVERYTHING , not to mention they got thermal , you are not hidding.

Nope, not true… They don’t see just you, and there are other targets… If you don’t make yourself the attention, you won’t be targetted instantly.

@ZendikarHaven

In fairness i’m an AB player, sooo yeah. Go after the argument, not the person.

I’ve put up with this for months, and it’s actually concerning because the first thing many do is just statcheck, then dismiss anything anyone says because they don’t think they are good.

It’s actually something that the mods need to tend to.

@MotorolaCRO

Having 0 kills and getting carried by your team isn’t really fun experience in a PvP game.

You’re not being carried.

@MotorolaCRO

That’s not a solution.
Solution has to be in my own hands, with my own vehicles.

Nope, the solution I mentioned is to get a squad going so you have a range of selection of vehicles and a dedicated ‘other’ who can help you or spawn something that is needed…

@MotorolaCRO

Tell me then how much of a chance does that Japanese TD I posted earlier stand against aircraft ?

Pretty high if it doesn’t get seen, and much more if it has someone in an SPAA providing overwatch.

[Pale_Horse_Rider]

I disagree. The normal SPAA cost is low for the very reason that they are not meant to be effective against tanks and are often the last vehicle someone who isnt playing well can spawn.

For SPAAs like the Falcon or the Gepard that have the option to take anti-tank belts (even though the Falcon’s isnt a full belt) taking those belts should increase the SP cost to match a tank destroyer of the same BR as a reflection of the change in function.

This keeps them balanced without getting rid of their last resort cheap spawn capability (just dont take that belt if you cant afford it, etc)

@FlyingDoctor

Yea, but be realistic… These guys aren’t going to do that…

There’s no way they’ll sit in the lobbies enough to maintain the population for Gaijin to note lol.

I leave it up to them to take the opportunity to prove you wrong with actions. The custom lobby option remains viable. They dont even have to do it 24/7, start small. Have a custom lobby open every Friday afternoon/evening for Tank Only and build from there.

[両儀_式]

@FlyingDoctor

Nope, not true… They don’t see just you, and there are other targets… If you don’t make yourself the attention, you won’t be targetted instantly.

Sure there are many target but how do you know that they didn’t see you ? How can you be sure that an ATGM is not heading your way ? How can you be sure that it didn’t see you and you are not chosen to be the one that will eat the ATGM. How can you be sure that it has spawned in and now scouting the battlefield for an easy kill. HOW can you know all of that while fighting and guarding the flank/choke point

[MotorolaCRO]

@FlyingDoctor

You’re not being carried.

Right, you’re creating a difference with your 0 kills.

@FlyingDoctor

Nope, the solution I mentioned is to get a squad going so you have a range of selection of vehicles and a dedicated ‘other’ who can help you or spawn something that is needed…

You still aren’t understanding. The game has to give me a big enough selection so I can pick something that’s needed and usable.

@FlyingDoctor

Pretty high if it doesn’t get seen, and much more if it has someone in an SPAA providing overwatch.

That’s not countering, that’s outright hiding like a rat for the whole game.
It’s about that vehicle vs aircraft, others aren’t important.

[ULQ_LOVER]

@FlyingDoctor

Doesn’t matter who does it, if it gets done, it gets done… The point is that it doesn’t have to be someone individually.

Of course it has to be someone individually, otherwise no one would kill an enemy.

@FlyingDoctor

That’s assuming that I am a burden

If You rely on others doing the “killing” it means that You are not needed as othrs do what You should.

@ZendikarHaven

I cant do shit against a 279 anywhere in something like a ZA-35

As I have said, SPAA are not taken into consideration as their sole purpose is to fight against the air, not the ground.

@ZendikarHaven

but you can still counter it with SPAA/CAP

After You die in a tank and decide to play something You don’t want to in first place.

@ZendikarHaven

That is, admittedly, true. However, many of those tanks trade it for other capabilities, and even just shooting at them can reduce their accuracy/desire to bomb you, at least when you fire on their attack run. Hell, even shooting your main gun can help somewhat.

Against a pilot that is not dumb, it won’t work. We can’t rely on air player being bad.

@ZendikarHaven

In this case, limiting the problem does mean it gets fixed

It doesn’t. The problem still exists.

@ZendikarHaven

here are going to be some times where you cant do anything, but when facing tanks the same can happen.

It doesn’t happen in +/-- 1 B.R. range.

@ZendikarHaven

but it would split the RB/SB playerbase and create massive balance problems for AB, all while not bringing in many new people.

Anything to back it up other than “I think it will happen”?

[両儀_式]

@Pale_Horse_Rider

I disagree. The normal SPAA cost is low for the very reason that they are not meant to be effective against tanks and are often the last vehicle someone who isnt playing well can spawn.

For SPAAs like the Falcon or the Gepard that have the option to take anti-tank belts (even though the Falcon’s isnt a full belt) taking those belts should increase the SP cost to match a tank destroyer of the same BR as a reflection of the change in function.

This keeps them balanced without getting rid of their last resort cheap spawn capability (just dont take that belt if you cant afford it, etc)

Yeah but there are some exception , that a given,.But i am talking about CAS spawn point , not SPAA spawn point. Sorry if i wrote something wrong

[ZendikarHaven]

@ULQ_LOVER

As I have said, SPAA are not taken into consideration as their sole purpose is to fight against the air, not the ground.

Aha, but tanks are solely meant to fight against the ground, not the air. Youve trapped yourself.

[RunaDacino]

@Pale_Horse_Rider

This might be a bit too much, the games last only so long and you don’t want people to spend half the match flying to and from the airfield, though I could see moving them back a bit more than they are now.

The trick here, for me at least at the BRs I play at is that it’d force a trade off between stamina & difficulty, or easy bombing & CAP capability.

You can choose to bring HVARs, Tiny tims, rocket pods and multiple small bombs and have enough stamina to loiter a good 5 minutes or so while getting constant kills or at least assists. The small bombs mean you must fly in closer and in a more precise path, exposing you to SPAA for longer.

Alternatively, you can take a big and heavy strike aircraft that can mount multiple heavy bombs that allow for less precise bombings, but you are now a bigger target and have less survivability fighting back against CAP or evading SPAA.

Finally, you can keep flying F4U-4s with 3 1000 lbs bombs, get 2-3 kills and then loiter as CAP or RTB and spend a lot longer between kills.

I think it would create a greater diversity of aircraft over the present meta of fighter-bombers with 2-3 1000 LBS bombs lobbing them with miniscule precision required as you can rearm in 3 minutes total (I’ve went and tested! I’ve given times earlier in the thread but IIRC it was… drop bomb 1 minute in, RTB and take off by 2:50, be in range of capture point for bombs at 4:04 with a 30 second rearm timer).

@Pale_Horse_Rider

Might risk being easy to camp, but not wholly unreasonable.

I think it’d be the opposite. Presently, it’s very easy for CAS to disengage, fly ~5 km and be within AAA range that before jets have magical accuracy (they deal damage based on time being present rather than actual physical bullets you can dodge and evade given how speed/maneuvering/G forces don’t seem to have an effect, and how there’s no friendly fire).

This enables airfield camping in case of CAP vs CAS and it’s very annoying. This also happens in ARB. Prop tier airfield AA should probably be adjusted to be comparable to subsonic rolands. Rolands feel balanced for me in banshee and demon.

@Pale_Horse_Rider

If this happens it needs to be toggle-able like with Helicopter XP. Some people do not want to play ARB at all and still need a way to gain plane research when playing GRB with CAS/CAP planes. It may not be as effecient as ARB but its still RP gained.

I’m totally fine with being able to toggle it. I just hate that I realized I’m wasting time flying CAP when I played german ground and wondered why I was progressing so slowly - I took out my bf109 to fight back against the american aircraft swarms and got nowhere and it was when I was rushing unlocking the Maus.

@Pale_Horse_Rider

Half the sheer time consumption and half the simple fact that if it takes that long to get to the battle the guy you want to revenge bomb will be harder to find or might have died. And before you make a point against revenge bombing keep in mind that the game encourages revenge kills with the Eye for Eye bonus so its clearly meant to be part of the game.

For me, it’s less about revenge bombing and more about forcing trade-offs and interesting choices with a greater diversity of aircraft.

Either someone sticks to fighter-bombers with a few massive bombs and gets easy low-precision kills, but loses out on stamina or they go for stamina and either must learn precision dive bombing or use a more vulnerable frontline bomber or strike craft.

[ULQ_LOVER]

@ZendikarHaven

Aha, but tanks are solely meant to fight against the ground, not the air.

Yes, that is why putting them against the air is not fair as by PvP game standards.

@ZendikarHaven

Youve trapped yourself.

I’m not the one who trapped himself ;)