Why do CAS players so vocally oppose any suggestions

Game Discussion Realistic Battle
3289

The learning curve for SPAA is extremely steep (Especially for single-gun ones like 40mm), and for what they do they give poor rewards. Could theoretically everyone do this? Yes. Is it ever practical? No.

The overall solutions I see for the CAS problem are fairly simple:

1: Allow scouting of aircraft by SPAA, and give a short-range lead marker to scouted aircraft for SPAA and HE-VT/HE-TF. (Yes, this includes flak guns and howitzers with those rounds, though only when loaded.)

2: Give pantsir-equivalent SPAA to all countries, and fine-tune the balance of AGMs at top tier. As an addendum to this, give score for shooting down missiles/bombs.

3: Give HE-TF the ability to act like HE-VT on scouted targets only.

4: Variable SP cost for SPAAs based on the ammunition carried - i.e., ZSU-57-2 with APHE would be the same as a medium tank, wheras with only HE it would be the same as current.

5: Y’all need to accept that SPAAs will need to ro AT work, and be fairly decent at it. As such, nonsensical limits on APDS should be removed unless it is specifically historical (Gepard and Gepard-likes). APDS should also be provided to 40mm SPAA that need it, (Lvkv 42), but with the SP cost listed above. HE-VT for 40mm should also be added back to the VEAK, and it should be given APDS. (Being moved up afterwards, of course.)

6: Just general addition of more SPAA to flesh out the tree, like the Finnish ZSU-57-2M (Finnish ZSU-57-2 with HE-VT and radar.) Should be done at all BRs.

And finally, giving all SPAA two stock belts - current default, which generally consists of half AP, half HE, and a full HE belt. For SPAA with HE-VT, they should get a half HE, half HE-VT belt.

4 Likes
3290

Because it will split the playerbase of RB/SB even more, with a paticularly heavy impact on SB, and because it further reinforces the heavy tank meta that AB currently has.

Ideally I would just try to fix the problems first - if they turn out to be unsolvable, I am willing to give your ideas a try.

3291

But on stuff like the Tunguska I usually go stock belts because an ap-he mix has better chance of destroying a plane
But that’s only for spaa with huge firerates

3292

Dying isn’t a problem.
Dying to something that you couldn’t counter from the get go is.

4 Likes
3293

Exactly

1 Like
3294

How will it split them even more tho, I mean we are probably losing players atm cuz of lack of TO gamemodes.

3295

All this fixes wont solve the issue for people wanting to just play tanks

2 Likes
3296

On those ones I am willing to fine-tune it somewhat, depending on the pen for the BR and how effective it is. It wont be a universal thing, its going to be tuned to each SPAA.

3297

I mean those that want to play battles with CAS can still do even if there is TO gamemode, it would be good if players had more options to choose from. Playerbase count would still be the the same, maybe even increase.

2 Likes
3298

Think they afraid because that would only leave them with other combined arms players which means way more experienced Flyers statically speaking

Numbers don’t mater at all but imagine 25% never plays a plane or Spaa
And they add a tank only mode it would mean they would be stuck with the other 75% which brings cas cap and spaa

3299

Its going to split the playerbase in likely about half, simply due to twice the available modes. I seriously doubt that second point though, its likely heavily overstated.

There is still the point about AB, which is pretty important - one of the few ways to get rid of a 279/Maus is to nail it with a bomb.

(Yes, maus. They are actually quite potent over here, especially at range.)

I think it will. If CAS is easy to counter, and said counters are accessible, it means that any death will actually be their fault, and it will be easy to improve/recover from it.

You actually see this a fair bit in AB - Yes, you will sometimes die to CAS, but it is easy to avoid and counter, so you rarely see the anger at it you see in RB. As another addition to my proposals I would likely also add naval’s style of aircraft to RB - meaning that you can still spawn CAP or CAS if you have not grinded out the air tree, further making it easier and more accessible to counter.

3300

Very unlikely. WT is a fairly niche game as-is, they addition of a TO mode is unlikely to do much to increase player counts.

3301

It wont be their fault as they are playing tanks not SPAAs meaning that in most cases they can’t do anything about the air killing them.

3302

Well all I’m gonna say befire I leave is: It doesnt hurt anything to try it, maybe make TO mode available for a week or 2 as starters and then based on response from players, go from there.

Bye gtg now

2 Likes
3303

You could make the same argument about tanks you cant pen, or when you get killed when your gun/track is knocked out. Everything has a counter - heavy armor to derp guns and TDs, CAS to SPAA.

What is important is that those counters are easy to get and use, which means yeah - you will still die to CAS sometimes, but its then easy to take out SPAA to shoot them down. Overall deaths by CAS will also decrease, as SPAA will be more attractive to players, meaning you will see more of them.

3304

You actually can’t.

When it comes to not being able to pen, I don’t belive there are many vehicles (please show us some) that can’t pen something (not SPAA) at -/+ 1 B.R.

When it comes to getting Your track/gun destroyed it is because You let that happen and it is because You made a mistake, You can’t say the same about 500kg bomb landing at You ;). Or the “mistake” is that You have killed someone that is going to kamikaze-bomb You.

1 Like
3305

Even if you enjoy planes, doing all that gives you zero reward for progressing ground!

So even if you do want to fly CAP, you’re screwed.

3 Likes
3306

Nope, not at all.

I’m not the only one that objects to anything, and I don’t need to be a pilot to object as what you’d think with many of the posts in this thread.

It’s learnable, and it’s not extremely steep, it just takes effort.

Thing is you have SPAA, and people can call out the incoming planes, so now there’s no excuse to be unaware and ill-prepared.

That’s by their choice to solely spawn the plane every match they have as it looks by those screenshots…

3307

When angles, there is, same with when stock. I really have no chance against a 279 in a stock T-54, and SPAA are in a worse position. Yes, they do count. Its a tradeoff they make, less pen against tanks for proper AA capability. Some heavy tanks also have this issue, if they have poor guns.

You somewhat can, at least in my experience. (Though I do come from AB, so yeah.) Much of my death from CAS come from when I was in a position exposed to the air with no cover, or when I had gotten my tracks/engine taken out.

I have learned to generally mitigate this by estimating where CAS will strike from in my location and keeping an eye in those directions. Sometimes i’ll nail one with a roof/coax MG, simply because I knew where they would come from.

Kamikazes I personally think could somewhat be solved by limiting killcam somewhat, though they are still going to happen. Main thing with them, though, is that they spent their vehicle to do so - its not a SP-effective trade, and implementing a manauver kill mechanic would mean that you actually get benefited for someone doing it to you.

I think this should be fixed by something similar to the ground research for helis - basically a box that would choose whether said research goes to air or ground.

3308

Learnable? Yes. It is an extremely steep learning curve though, and very offputting compared to the relatively simple task of tanks. A new player trying to use a 40mm SPAA is going to do very badly, wheras they will have a much easier time in a tank.