Why do CAS players so vocally oppose any suggestions

Game Discussion Realistic Battle
440

The game is designed that way, that planes are only a cheap revange tool for people who don’t want to get good in tanks and need something to defeat a better player.

This is how they are implemented at the moment.

You are the one refusing to acknowledge how RB GFs work at the moment. There is a simple question which shows how things are:

Which is easier?

  1. Using a tank against +1 B.R. tank
  2. Using a plane with bombs agaisnt + 1 B.R. tank

And spare me the talk about needing to earn SP, as You only need to cap a zone to get into the aircraft with bombs ;).

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441

When will anti-CAS players accept the fact, it’s “Combined Battles” there are planes and tanks, period. They, being Gaijin, are not going to simply remove planes because some players cannot or will not learn to deal with them in some manner . . . other than complaining. I mainly fly planes, I enjoy them. I have been here a long time and played tanks since the were implemented and I used to have a great deal of fun playing tanks. . . . even with planes in there. I am by no means a very good tank player, but I manage . . . most of the time. . . lol. And being average or below in skill level playing tanks, I still rarely get killed by planes. Here’s a few reasons why - I play AB where planes are so nerfed/gimped they are barely worth flying, plus the number of planes in the air is limited by time & number. I do not sit still very long in one place and I never hang out in a “cluster” of other players . . . not by choice anyway. Several players sitting together is just asking for it . . . total bomb magnet . . . yet I see it all the time.
RB is a mess and it’s not planes/CAS, it’s how they are implemented . . the respawn point system is completely to blame for like 90% of the plane issue in that mode, main reason I do not play it. Players are going to do whatever gives them an advantage, scores them points with the least amount of risk/effort . . . . this is the way.
Instead of “hating” on the players that make good use of planes, or making demands(TANKS ONLY!! . . reeee) maybe learn to play the game you are given, work within the system to bring about changes. It’s the way planes are implemented in RB that is the problem i.e. - the respawn point system. Why not go to the source/root of the problem and see about getting that adjusted/removed(the way they do it in naval is far superior to the RB tank system).
Gaijin is not going to create a whole other mode for a segment of the player base and thin out the queues for tank battles even further. There are 3 modes for tank play, find the one that suits your play style the best and do that. The bickering and arguing back and forth is pointless, finding constructive solutions that work for/benefit the most players would be the ideal route to follow. Division among the players should be lessened, not made worse. It is not really an issue or a requirement to even “take sides”, it is a problem/issue that needs to be worked on. It’s not a matter of WHO is right, it is a matter of WHAT is right . . for the majority of the players and the game itself . . . . . “Go easy Bro” . . . . . this is the way

5 Likes
442

I could not have said it better.

In my eyes, CAS is implemented horribly and aircraft/their users are unfairly demonized. There are some legitimate complaints from the TO crowd, despite the fact that they’re choosing to gimp themselves out of “preference” and then complaining about unfairness.

If nothing else, surely most of us can agree on the fact that revenge bombing is probably the source of most of the rage and frustration. Why not tackle the causes of that first which make it so commonplace to turn down the temperature in the room so meaningful discussion can be made?

  1. Ditch the kill camera from RB (and also Sim), or if it is kept in then its footage should be moved to after the round ends. Dying should not reward you with intel, period. If you suspect someone cheated, look at the server replay.

  2. Force planes to spawn on the runway so they take longer to get to the map after their tank is blown up.

  3. Remove the close-range helipad completely. Move the farther helipad back and merge it with the airfield complex, so that helicopters can land on the plane airfield if they so choose.

  4. Ditch the “[Our/Hostile] team is capturing zone [A/B/C]” messages. These only act as “hi I’m here please bomb me!” messages. Surely the ticket bar not flashing, the icons below it changing color, and the minimap are enough to tell people that zone control is changing.

I use aircraft a lot in combined, more for CAP than CAS as I enjoy markerless dogfights way more than in Air RB.

But guess what - I hate revenge killing as much as the typical person chanting for TO does.

Now, there is a lot more needing alteration to make CAS fit into the mode well, but that can be explained later on once the rage mechanics are taken care of.

As a part of that, I would not mind “throwing a bone to the TO guys” in a way that doesn’t split the mode and can actually test how well it would really work. While I personally believe that many campy maps would break without CAS to uproot people, that is not completely certain. Have bad weather block use of aircraft, like in reality. Fog, rain, snow, etc. I already don’t use air much when the weather is bad because its really hard to spot stuff on the ground.

3 Likes
443

Yeah, as a “pro-CAS” person. I’d have no issue with any of these.

Moving the heli-pads further away (or combining one with the main AF) could also mean a return of actual AA for the heli-pads.

The only aircraft though that should keep an airspawn is the medium/heavy bombers. Though they could still spawn a little lower and/or further away.

But yeah, I also heavily agree with the weather additions. Its one sure fire way to mitigate high alt bombing.

1 Like
444

Big planes and seaplanes currently spawn over the runway after landing, so they’d probably do the same instead of runway takeoff due to being physically unable to in some cases.

Glad to see you understand the rest and agree with it.

Only once the screaming stops (or at least lessens) can anything of substance be discussed.

I personally believe using Simulator’s SP system is the only true way of achieving “balance,” because no matter how you change the weapons or where they spawn, in the current system, one team will “rush” to get air up before the other, and the other then complains how “overpowered” it is in the neverending cycle of utter nonsense.

Sim does the following: 1000SP at match start, no ability to earn more through any action. Obviously this would mean no more nukes in RB unless it was changed instead to get a number of kills without dying like it is in AB.

This means that both CAS and CAP could be first spawns with any loadout. However, both teams equally get access to this at match start, meaning it no longer matters which team has the faster cap-rushing meme machines anymore, and that spawning SPAA/SAMs early game actually has some value. Furthermore, since both teams get equal access to it, they can cancel each other out.

I would go even further by undoing many nonsensical nerfs to SPAAG and SAMs, both in their ground-to-air and ground-to-ground capability. The former to make them easier to learn and use, the latter to encourage the average joe to do more than sit uselessly in his own spawn.

And lastly, I would use Naval’s default plane concept, so every player has BR-appropriate fighters and CAS (latter with preset unoptimized loadouts) in their decks ready to use if they simply wish to learn how to use it. Nobody is able to be truly “defenseless” any longer unless they choose to be. If they still choose to gimp themselves, they forfeit all right to complain how “overpowered” air is when they’re doing nothing to defend themselves or their team.

CAS is 50% an objective and spawning problem, and 50% a player opinion one. Empowering the counters to where they are too good not to at least try using and making them guaranteed available to every user will begin to uproot the opinion of “CAS is too hard/impossible to counter” once and for all.

445

Yeah, I agree, and I have been getting into GSB lately, I actually enjoy the ground combat in that more than I do in GRB, even though I can spawn in a plane whenever I want.

I do have a quite a few suggestions to mitigate CAS without nuking them, there is certainly some issues to be resolved, but I think that is the key word “resolve”. These issues could absolutely be fixed.

446

I mainly play AB for tanks & planes, I do however prefer RB for naval, and the differences between AB & RB are very slight compared to tanks & planes. For the markers, I only show the vehicle type and distance, that’s all the really matters . . . what is it, how far away is it. I agree about a good deal of things in game that basically amount to “taunting” and inspire/encourage rage induced “revenge” killing are not really needed. A MOD told me long ago about the names, and he stated that once he turned that part off, the “urge” to go after someone went away. I find it makes me more able to stay focused on the match/objectives or tasks I am working on. The “skull” icon should be removed. Less aggro/confrontational things between individual players and more incentive for team work would seem a better approach . . . but that’s just me and I understand it’s a war game . . .
Full Metal Jacket Full Metal GIF - Born To Kill Full Metal Jacket - Discover & Share GIFs
But there is still honor, sportsmanship and . . . code . . . we could use more of that stuff
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The Coffin Of The Red Baron Being Carried By Members Of The Australian No. 3 Squadron, Lead By An English Priest, For Burial In Northern France. The Ace Pilot Of World War I Germany Was Shot Down On April 21, 1918, And Given A Full Military Funeral By The Australian Unit Who Recovered His Body
. . . just saying . . . only my opinion anyway

1 Like
447

Sorry but SB spawning system is way worse than You describe it to be, and it would make the unbalance even bigger.

448

Preach, brother!

Once we all stop screaming, we realize the other guy is just as human as you and I are.

The ideal bone to throw to TO supporters is to simply make bad weather block aircraft usage entirely. Then alter the frequency to at least 25% of games, if not 40-50%, so that some sort of common-sense compromise is found and this mess stops.

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449

As again it won’t solve the issue.

450

There is no issue because combined battles is always what the game is about

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451

My point is to give all teams the ability to defend themselves if they so choose to learn how to use the proper counters, while at the same time making the counters more accessible and (for SPAA/SAMs) much easier to use.

In my eyes, planes with or without ordinance being a “powerup” not available first spawn is the root of the problem. As long as its a powerup which only causes things to snowball, it will always be unbalanced no matter what you change about it.

Making all of it available as first spawn would ironically balance things. Clean fighters with just AAMs would have a field day harvesting early game CAS, and if a team chooses to not spawn any (or enough) fighters/AA/SAMs to defend themselves, their loss and fault, not the game’s. Simple as that.

I wish to give people the tools to help themselves. If they choose not to use them, not my problem. You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make it drink.

452

I don’t see ‘Combined battles’ gamemode in game

Which again doesn’t solve anything for people wanting to play tanks.

It would be better, but not for people wanting to play tanks.

Ironically there is a mode where all planes can start from the beginning, AIR RB.

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453

Last time I checked, you could play tanks in GRB

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454

Of course, but it puts me at disadvantage to play tanks in only RB gamemode where I can do that.

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455

If you want a game with just tanks, you picked the wrong game, man.

If you willingly choose to not use air out of “preference,” then you aught to use SPAA and SAMs. If you don’t want to use even those, I legit do not know what to tell you. You are complaining about something but not doing anything to help yourself with that problem.

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456

All of this things could be added and would make things better if there was a TO added at the same time.

I don’t get why people are so scared of this mode.

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457

Also, the last time i played ARB in the Tornado Gr1 I got shot down before I had even dropped a single bomb. ARB is not a suitable substitute for most strike aircraft or bombers. In fact it might actually be the worst possible gamemode in the game for them currently.

And thats not even mentioning the current state of Helis. Heli PvE is actually the worst made gamemode ever. I would love somewhere good to play “Only Helis” but alas, im stuck in GRB.

458

And did you not see what I proposed - that by blocking air usage in bad weather, and altering how often bad weather occurs - you could in fact have games regularly without aircraft without the known risks of splitting the matchmaker.

Surely you can see the common sense in that. It’s not everything you want, but in this case where the devs have denied TO more consistently than anything else in years past, and even gave it a test event to gauge its real popularity before deciding it wasn’t worth the time, isn’t having some of what you want better than none at all?

I hate revenge bombing, too, man!

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459

So tankers in GRB are needed as targets because in other modes some units have it bad… proving my point again.

TO would solve all the issue and the true combined gamemode could be created.

The problem is that You don’t understand that You are talking to a person who is using the air.

TO would solve all the issues because people playing GRB would be people wanting combined gamemode. No more nerfs etc.

1 Like