I agree but if people want to sit and snipe in a certain game in a vehicle designed to do that then OK and with the maps being what they are i understand it to a degree.
I decided to be “brave” and use UK at 5.3,Comet,Challenger,A.C 4 etc but all I got was the Berlin map three times in a row and its terrible for light tanks relying on speed and flanking.I gave up in the end.
Britain is enough of a challenge without the misery of maps adding to the equation.
The biggest pain in WT is venturing off the map edge and having your tank explode because you were timed ou tor you see your flanking intentions wiped by a sudden “return to the battlefield” warning ,it’s lame and lazy.That does cause ODL for me and often WT getting turned off completely.
Eloquent stuff. Your description remained literally a description of the old maps,a fact you ignored because it was inconvenient to you:
No thinking
Drive straight to a memorized spot
Engage the enemy
is what you did before
it’s only a matter who will get to the advantageous angle first.
This is literally exactly what you’re asking for by wanting sniper spots to be put back, lol. The only difference is that people don’t KNOW all the best spots yet on a new map. Like I said, over time, that will change, but while a version of a map is still fresh, it actually prevents exactly this complaint, while doing it your way causes your exact complaint to be true.
And whoever got to your sniper spot, also with the better gun, wins in the maps you’re asking for. At least this time with the new map versions, nobody has memorized all the spots yet. (Temporarily)
Why do you people keep claiming you don’t like this outcome and yet then immediately beg for that exact outcome? Completely hypocritical. The reason of course is because you know that YOU’VE looked up and memorized the best spots, so it lets YOU specifically seal club. And you don’t actually want a fair fight, nor do you want (or ever used) “tactics”. You want to (lazily, passively, by rote memory) club
Honestly what they should actually do to prevent any version of the map from ever becoming solved meta with known best spots, is to make a few dozen houses and barriers and things variable and dynamic, and randomly turn each one on or off every time, so each map generation is unique in its angles and best spots.
“And whoever got to your corner camping spot, also with the better engine wins in the maps you’re asking for. At least this time with the new map versions, nobody has memorized all the spots yet. (Temporarily)”
Goes both ways, mate.
I’m not even entirely sure you have ever played sniper tanks from these spots, as the majority of them have counter areas, exposed flanks, opposing paths in defilade to deny long lines of sight and blind spots. The only real problem ones were middle east and 38th parallel. Except those maps only had one side lose their sniper nest.
Remembering common paths and counter lines of sight are skills. Learning new paths on the fly or discovering other counter lines of sight are also skills. Don’t lie to us and claim you never take the same path to your favored objective area/city corner to camp.
Correction, they required better twitch shooter reflexes and precisely tuned settings to listen for enemy vehicles. The teams had maybe 2 or 3 preferred areas to patrol on the full size maps and just had them narrowed to 1 area to patrol in the miniature variants. A reduction in thought.
Yes I sat on the jungle hill sniper spot many a time. It was an absolute zero effort easy street turkey shoot. Literally just don’t stick out too far for the other hill, the end. You’re totally fine. 8 kills easy peasy with brain shut off, no problem. Anyone tries to flank, they raise an absolutely unmistakeable racket and you know ages ahead of time to be waiting for them.
Zero thinking. I actually didn’t like jungle very much at all, not because I’d get sniped from there, but because the spot was SO ridiculously OP that I felt obligated to go there or we’d lose the match, but it wasn’t very fun because of how braindead simple it was. The map is a lot more fun now even as one of the guys who knew that spot well.
Actually earning a win is much more satisfying than typing in a cheat code, which is functionally what going to the sniper hill was.
Remembering common paths and counter lines of sight are skills.
No, rote memorization is not a skill once you’ve memorized it. Sure it WAS a skill for all of about 3 minutes several years ago, where your skill let you memorize it in that amount of time instead of in 5 minutes. Then the skill part was officially over, and you were able to simply let your brain turn to jelly since then.
Correction, they required better twitch shooter reflexes and precisely tuned settings to listen for enemy vehicles.
Both twitch shooting and listening skills are, UNLIKE having memorized something 5 years ago for a few moments from a sniper spot guide website, actual ongoing skills every match.
You are acting like sniper spots are be-all end-all positions that will immediately end the game if someone reaches them, almost like a nuke, but from the ground.
Reality is quite different though, snipers can be dealt with in multiple ways.
You misread my reply.
My biggest complaint on the map I posted above is simply lack of available routes to take. As I said earlier, that map will have what, 4-5 streets and in a full lobby every street will be occupied, so you’re basically forced to take head-on engagements.
This leads us to yet another problem, some vehicles aren’t designed to do that and solely rely on flanking techniques to perform.
I have to go back to your previous post to make a comment on something. You said that this, smaller version of the map required more thinking than full size one, which is comically wrong.
You’re basically saying that B is more complex than A, all the while A contains all of B and also has plenty of unique traits to it’s name. This is a ridiculously easy logic to understand, but yet you somehow fail to do that.
You still don’t understand that some vehicles aren’t made to be knife fighters that are efficient in head-to-head engagements. I’m sorry, but why should something like PUMA or M3A3 Bradley be forced to frontally engage 2A4, T-80B or any other MBT, when they will be hilariously inferior in that case ?
Different vehicles require different playstyles, not everything can efficiently play in a 300m x 300m urban area, so limiting the maps to have only that type of combat is highly detrimental to vehicles not made with that in mind.
Finite versions of the map can still be learned and will actually hurt players that don’t play as often. Only way to completely solve this issue is to have procedurally generated maps but that would be an absolute mess to balance.
That being said, people should be able to learn maps and benefit from that knowledge, it’s part of the experience.
Okay, somehow being able to hear is an actual skill, and not something we are born with (for the most part).
As I said earlier, you seem to be speaking from a low-tier standpoint, but you need to acknowledge the fact not every tier in the game works in the same way.
There are tens of hills on jungle, you need to be more specific. In case you are referring to the area on the J line of the map that can fire into the center of the map, that was a fairly balanced position that actually exposed the majority of vehicles using it. Until recently it also was an area that both sides had equal access to. Not a “lol i win” cheat code. Overwatch positions on I4 and H6 are noob traps and still continue to be noob traps today.
You don’t actually understand those two skills entail, do you? Remembering common routes is knowing areas of the map enemies like to congregate in, knowing areas that have poor cover and long sight lines, knowing when an enemy is likely to take up a power position and understanding the route to take in order to counter that power position.
You think this is just “ohoho i go here and win game” when it’s actually “If I decide to go here, where are the enemies going to come from, what areas do I have available to use as cover/concealment, where are my blind spots, when should I move to a position to counter the inevitable revenge spawn” and much more.
This isn’t something a heatmap website gives you (especially because they do not exist for War Thunder), it’s something people learn by playing and observing where their teammates go, where enemies go, where they die and where they are killed from.
Tiny maps remove so much of this skill. There is no flanking, there is no using range to your advantage. Sitting behind corners and listening for the direction the growl of an engine comes from is something a toddler can do. Quickly moving your crosshair to the enemy gun barrel and spraying tracks with MG fire is similarly easy.
Obviously I was referring to specifically the hills they removed from Jungle, you know, the topic of the thread “Why are sniper spots being removed?”’
Remembering common routes is knowing areas of the map enemies like to congregate in, knowing areas that have poor cover and long sight lines, knowing when an enemy is likely to take up a power position and understanding the route to take in order to counter that power position.
None of that has to do with the topic of the thread, which was about “Why are particular objectively best sniper spots being removed?” The spots that were removed required NO thinking about ANY of what you just wrote, because they always guaranteed overlooked common routes, congregated areas, had great cover, great sight lines, etc. etc.
That’s why you didn’t need a brain to use them, precisely because all those things were idiot-proof in those spots.
Other much less OP spots that do require you to think about those things… weren’t removed and aren’t the topic of the thread.
Tiny maps remove so much of this skill.
This is a thread about removing sniper spots. Jungle is the same size it was before, has all the same flanking it had before, etc. But incidentally, no, listening for sounds better than the other guy and fast twitch reacting better than the other guy are not, in fact, any easier than any other skills in game. The average person succeeds or fails at those tasks exactly 50% of the time, just like flanking. So they are exactly as easy or difficult as flanking.
If “tiny map skills were trivial for any toddler” then everyone would have a 90% win rate on tiny maps. Which is of course mathematically impossible. So… wrong.
Goal post moving. You argue sniping takes no skill, only memorization. I proved that incorrect.
Listening depends on sound mods, sound equipment and patience. 2/3 of that is literally not skill. 1/3 is literally just pay more money for better surround sound. Twitch skills can be improved with drugs (adderall).
You can’t buy map knowledge or take pills for game sense.
The thread is on general removal of long sightlines; as I have been reading from the OP (Original Post). Multitudes of strong positions that could be countered have been removed and many more ‘no thought me win’ positions have been ignored.
Conveniently, Jungle is not the sole map in the game and this topic is not solely about Jungle. Reduction in skill refers to the ‘narrowed’ maps where half the the minimap is placed out of bounds. Maps that you praise as the utter epitome of skill and intelligent play.
Considering the probability a toddler is playing War thunder is a very small one, almost every player will be of equal “skill” at twitch shooting and listening. (Ignoring how both of those aren’t actually skills, one is a sense almost everyone is born with and the other is just reflexes and muscle memory) Equal points to exact 50% distribution, not 90%. What kind of logic are you running on?
Sniping from OP sniper spots of the type that were removed by Gaijin takes no skill, the topic of the thread, I’ve always been talking about the topic of the thread. Never have been referring to non-OP spots, which were not removed, so thus not the topic of the thread.
pay more money for better surround sound.
There is no such thing as ““surround sound”” beyond “having at least one earphone for each ear, of any type”. You can get a $5 set of earbuds that give you 100% of available 3d sound information at Walmart or on the side of the street, lol. The human head has 2 ears, so 17 points of information are no better than 2. If you’ve ever bought something like that, you literally just got scammed by a salesperson at Best Buy.
Conveniently, Jungle is not the sole map in the game and this topic is not solely about Jungle.
It is a representative example of a map where they removed sniper spots. The narrowed cargo port map is NOT an example of a map where they removed sniper spots.
Considering the probability a toddler is playing War thunder is a very small one, almost every player will be of equal “skill” at twitch shooting and listening.
Except the toddler comment was complete nonsense to begin with. Aiming precisely and quickly is a much more hone-able skill than “opening up a website that tells you the best sniper spots on each map and learning them in 3 minutes”. The latter is a binary yes/no event, at which point anyone who’s done it is exactly equal. People’s ability to aim quickly (which also includes their knowledge of crew spots, weak spots, ammo spots, angles, etc.) is much more nuanced and non-binary. Some people are terrible, some just bad, some average, some good, some great. Nobody is “average” at “knowing this hill is the best sniper spot” They are ONLY either “infinitely terrible” or “infinitely great” at that, because you either know it or you don’t, the end.
Equal points to exact 50% distribution, not 90%. What kind of logic are you running on?
50% success means it’s not easy. You said it was “easy”. So you lied then, if you’re now admitting it’s 50% successful.
Tbh most of the map for tanks especially the high tier are so garbage even WoT maps better than most of garbage we have in the game yeah also small map it just prone to get CAS and yet people like small map and hate CAS
Ironic isn’t it?
Reading is very hard, isn’t it? Here’s the point so you can go over it again.
Somebody’s never actually had proper headphones, have they?
“Removed” spots yet according to you also unchanged meaningfully. Please do stay consistent.
Excellent reading comprehension on display right here.
You do not understand at all what spots were removed unnecessarily and which ones were. You do not understand what a skill is. You do not understand how people play this game. I’d wager you barely even understand this game. Stop wasting everybody’s time.
The neurology of the ear and the auditory cortex is only physically capable of detecting the direction of a sound by the difference in timing between sounds hitting one ear vs another, versus the position of the head.
So there is no possible device that can provide more directional information than basic 2 channel audio. At a physiological level. Doesn’t matter if you spend $1,000,000 on your headphones, headphoens do not change how human ears and brains work, lol.
The only possible fancier thing headphones could do is have a gyroscope that keeps track of your head’s direction, and changed the left and right channels based on that, but 1) I’ve never seen headphones for sale anywhere that do that, 2) If there are, it’s not functionally any more advantageous in game than using the “C” key which simulates moving your head around in game.
So you cannot P2W on “surround soudn” audio equipment.
Since that was the only actual point you made anywhere in your comment, that’s all I have to reply to.
Also all the big maps that are in the game are restricted to 9.7+. Most of my favourite vehicles (france especially) are sniping vehicles, and especially at 8.0-8.7, lack the stabilisers that us, russia, and china have. These vehicles don’t perform at all in a close range setting so how can I play?
I mean, all it took was a brief Google search to come up with this. That and the basic knowlege that surround sound has been offered in headphones for years, and it’s highly unlikely they’re all lying about it. Maybe try a small amount of research before smugly dismissing an argument.
Now imagine playing a turretless tank destroyer with the turning rate of a battleship and aced 18.2s reload on single cap Normandy/Ardennes.
Or not at all, because those are the maps you get nine times out of ten when you sit down for a couple hours of WT in the evenings. You maybe log in feeling like playing said casemate, and are then presented with scenario after scenario where you know the better minmaxing move would be to take LeK or JPz instead.
So either you do it, and two hours later realise wait, I barely played what I actually wanted! Or you just spawn in what you want, and lower your expectations about how well it’s gonna go.
And this, is a balance problem. No other way to describe it.
I love it when people link articles on wikipedia, and then are too lazy to even read their own articles, it’s always a hoot.
Recordings processed via an HRTF, such as in a computer gaming environment, which approximates the HRTF of the listener, can be heard through stereo headphones and interpreted as if they comprise sounds coming from all directions
So you don’t need any fancy hardware, because it’s not using a million speakers, it’s SIMULATING different directions, and your ear can’t tell the difference between 2 and a million speakers when it’s calculated correctly. The sound processed this way can be played still through $5 earbuds you found in the street and work just fine. Exactly like I said. Want to try again?
Sound locating is not P2W. (Or NEED not be, I have no idea whether tank engine compatible localization software is available for free or not in this one application currently, or even available at all, but even if it isn’t, Gaijin could instead implement it in the game’s code itself and have it work equally for any type of stereo hardware)
