Which nation has the best ground players?

Game Discussion Realistic Battle
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Thank you folks, you’re far too kind.

It’s the usual problem of incentives. If making full lineups is hard and slow for new players, they are encouraged to spend. If they don’t spend, they play a lot, and fill lobbies. The MMO nature of WT is both a curse and a gift.

Unlike you two, it wasn’t that long ago that I started playing the game, and since I didn’t really have someone to show me the ropes at first, everything was so damn confusing. (The UI was also a lot worse back then it must be said). So nowadays whenever I get the chance to talk to newer players, I try and explain as much as I can to give them an easier start. And it’s genuinely disheartening how many times I hear variations of the following exchange (which is the most recent example):

Guy sees me play a good match in the Tiger II. “Hey, can you give me some tips about how to use this thing? I just keep dying”

I look at the guy’s lineup. One Tiger II (Serienturm), a couple of 5.7s and a Pz IV.

“Sure! First thing is you need a full lineup. You have a lot of options at 6.7. Think of the lineup like a toolbox and the vehicles are individual tools, knowing which one to spawn where is essential, winning begins in the hangar.”

“But I just got here and I don’t want to start grinding a whole other line…”

What do you even say to something like that? You can say “this is not how you’re supposed to play the game” and you’d be correct from a competitive POV, but from an incentives POV, ehh…

Veteran players who fully choose to spawn just one vehicle, like that IS-3, are a whole other story.

Just to make matters worse: this was a 6.7 - 7.7 match (I didn’t see any 8.0s, but there were Somua SMs, one was among my kills) and we didn’t have any 7.7s at all. Which made our only two 7.3s even more important in relative terms.

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Until 8.0 onwards Brits started to receive firepower that is more or less equal to what they faced, the 105mm is considered one of the best APDS in the game that has very little chance to shatter, at 8.3 they have dm23 and 8.7 they have the best 120mm apds in the game, at 9.0 their chieftain mk10 has better ammunition than dm23 because its 120mm. Then they get one of the best MBTs at 10.0 then start going downhill afterward.

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France, Britain and Italy.
Can also throw Japan in although that only applies up to Rank IV, from Rank V they have incredibly strong tanks.

Sure sure, lemme just do nothing to you when you’re hull down because my APDS doesn’t spall half the time.
Lemme shoot you centermass and pray to the RNG gods that it actually spalls and doesn’t just go through while making a singular crew member yellow.
Lemme shoot your barrel, oh wait, its at the shatter angle of the APDS, too bad.

The amount of first shot engagements I have lost because APDS is absolute dogshit is horrendous.
Yesterday was playing my 7.7 Britain lineup. Came around a corner in my Conqueror, and shot at a Tiger II before he could shoot me. 500mm penetration APDS round straight into the flat front face of his turret. What do I get? Nothing. It penetrated but didn’t take out the gunner, only made him yellow and it didn’t even knock out the ammo in the rear turret bustle of the Tiger II only made a singular round orange, and barely spalled. What do I get in return? 88mm through the lower front plate, instantly dead. By all accounts I should have won that engagement, sure its my fault for not shooting center mass but I’ve shattered my APDS on a Tiger II’s frontal hull plate before.

Next engagement > Centurion Mark 3, 230mm pen 20pdr APDS round. I shoot center mass at a Panther. Pens the upper hull plate, barely spalls, leaves a burn mark on his driver’s shoulder, tickles the legs of the loader, and passes through the engine making it orange. Thankfully I don’t die because he missed his shot, but I could have died and again, achieved nothing.

I’ve had many moments where APDS has let me down, more often than it has worked for me. Shot a Maus straight in the ammo with Conqueror’s APDS, what does it do? Round turns yellow, round barely spalls, exits the other side of the Maus (side shot) and nothing happened after. Now I am stuck on a 20s reload and forced to retreat because the most reliable method to kill a Maus, a round straight into the ammo, did nothing. APDS is trash. Its only saving grace is that it doesn’t shatter against a 5 degree angled plate like HVAP does. I died to a Hellcat in my Ratel 20 because my HVAP shattered harmlessly against his 12mm super steel that can resist 20mm rounds hitting it. Even an HVAP round shattering on that would still penetrate and kill the crew.

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I’m not saying that APDS is APHE, but there are genuinely people who will take HEAT-FS over APDS, it’s just silly. If it is between HEAT-FS and APDS, I take APDS 99.9% of the time. No one can say that APHE isn’t overpeforming, of course. I don’t play the Conq, though, because why would you play Britain 7.7 when you have Britain 8.3 right next door. But I use APDS on Leo1, Vickers Mk.3, etc.

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Im sorry but if you struggle in UK 7.7 vehicles, issue is player sided.

Are you using APDS instead of AP as your standard round?

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Oops

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The opponents I fear the most in Top Tier are Japanese players;

Maybe they aren’t as extraordinary as French or Italian ones, but the Type 10s are without doubg the best MBTs of the bunch, so… when you combine good players with those tanks, you get an extreme combination.

Italian, French and British player are held back and “balanced out” by the… things they have to play with.

Well, excluding Italian players with Leopard 2A7HUs. Those are basically terminators.

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lol. I just like using a round that doesn’t require me to knock over every bush or fence before firing. But it also depends on the size of the gun. 76mm APDS vs 105 or larger is a different story all together. I’m mainly talking about APDS vs HEAT-FS with Vickers Mk.3, Leopard, 100mm+ APDS.

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Yes because 190mm pen solid shot is not enough to deal with T-10s which you see regularly enough at those BRs. Also can’t deal with the odd Maus as the Centurion isn’t fast enough to pull flanks.

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I mean yeah, in terms of the vehicle itself, the Type 10s are a nightmare to fight in anything not russian/german, but i wouldn’t necessarily chalk that up to the players, especially given the sheer amount of type 90 fuki players lurking around the last year, I feel like the average skill level of japan top tier has decreased.

I say Italy/France/Britian mainly because they have flawed tanks or lineups when you don’t look at their leopards, and are still a minority.
Then Israel is sorta in the corner with the mediokava and 1-2 players per 5 games

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84mm AP isnt 190mm pen, its 239mm, marginally slightly more than KT 88mm APHE.

APDS pen is 385mm pen, not 230mm as you claimed in your earlier comment.

You probably confused Cent mk. 1 17pndr values with Cent mk.3 20pndr.

Centurion mk. 3 is more than capable of dealing with IS-3s or T-10As at its own BR, just dont go into manhood measuring contest with them frontally. When it comes to T-10M, its a tank full BR higher, but the armor profile is the same as IS-3/T-10A and as such same rules apply.

Centurion mk. 1 cant naturally see Maus.

Centurion mk. 3 with APDS can comfortably fire through turret face of a Maus.

Again, UK 7.7 is one of the stronger ones, issue certainly isnt with tanks.

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Simple answer is any of the minor nations.

Pretty much every Minor nation has horrific lineups and flawed tanks. I’d say France, Italy, Japan or Britain.

I’d say those nations have a fair amount of the great players. The best of the best usually use multiple nations so it’d be hard to pin it down. So I guess the answer is the minor nations have the better players but the best is just all of them.

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The whole question is flawed anyway.

It simply cannot be properly measured so everything stated is just subjective opinion.

Lot of players migrate due to FotM.

French main who will play a US tank for a month will count towards the “US players skill” for that month, but its still a french main.

New players dillute any data set and drag down the mean average.

Probably bunch of other stuff.

2 Likes
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There is also the unsolvable “problem” that we don’t each play against a standardiset set of enemies.

Did I play well in this X match? Or did I just do so well because the enemy team was full of bad players? Or good players having an off day? Does it make sense to make the distinction?

The aggregate numbers paint a picture, of course, it’s just a foggy one that conveys some information but not as much as one would perhaps wish.

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Great remark, that does play a large part.

I was also thinking that even if we were to compare identical vehicles across multiple trees, that still wouldnt be an accurate assesment as that does not take into account different lineups different nations have access to.

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My bad, I got confused on their values.

My success with solid shot wasn’t proportional. I had greater success with the APDS provided it actually did damage. (more times than not I despaired as my solid shot got eaten by volumetric and my APDS while it did penetrate it barely did anything.)

Unless you’ve got 6.7 tanks in your lineup, which you’re basically forced to use now because the Ratel 90 went up to 6.7 for some reason. Of course you can make do with a smaller lineup of 6.3 vehicles with the M109 and the FV4005 and the Charioteer. Kinda funny now that I think about it but the Centurion Mk.1 doesn’t have a lineup.

UK 7.7 is a strong lineup, if the shells work. You’re playing roulette with the Conqueror’s APDS(will it pen or will it shatter? flip a coin to find out), and with Solid shot being as bad as it is, you’re also playing roulette on its post-pen damage. Your only achilles heel at 7.7 realistically is the lack of a good SPAA on account of the Falcon being uptiered from 7.7 to 8.0 and now 8.3.

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np, happens.

Solid shot is good for 80% of targets Cent mk III will face. APDS should be reserved for hard targets, ones you would need to engage with HEAT-FS were you playing say Patton for example.

as far as i know, when it comes to non-HE filled shells, generated spall is tied to projectile weight. APDS is lighter, therefore generates less spall than AP.

but then youre voluntarily and knowingly uptiering 6.0 tank to 6.7. Centurion mk I is thus facing opponent whole 1.7 BR higher, as opposed to natural 1.0 uptier. Do you understand how massive difference in capability it is?

Argument that you “have to” uptier Cent mk I to 6.7 cannot stand. While gaijin is the one responsible for at times questionable BR shifts, YOU and YOU ONLY are in control of your lineups and what you play.

issue not unique to the Cent Mk.1 im afraid. I could name a few vehicles that dont have TT lineup to go with.

My shells rarely shatter, reload time is what irks me about Conqueror.

I disagree. AP can be just as effective as APHE if you know how to work around its limitations. Proper shot placement wont suddenly make coupola one shots possible, its far from being hopeless as lot of UK mains portray it.

Spoiler

Last few days ive been alternating between UK 7.7 and germany 7.0. Both work in their own ways.

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