What is going to happen to Enduring Confrontation?

I don’t really understand “Useful actions” so I cannot really comment, especially since its not transparent and I cannot fathom what makes up up the total.

Before it was assists, kills, hits and that had a clarity.

Things like capture points, bomber/attacker formations are fine, no problem there. I don’t know if there is any attrition if the Bombers and attackers manage to hit their target, though one still gets the reward for destroying formations after they have completed their task.

There does not seem to be any player attrition in the mix as yet, if it is, its barely noticeable, Destroying fighters and bombers should reduce the enemy resources and should be the main mode in which to win the game.

It seems to me this whole scoring mechanism is an evolution of plugging economic exploits, like bomb and bail, driving bombers around on the ground, F4 rockets . .etc etc

Its as if you play a game of foot ball, score the maximum goals . . .and for some inexplicable reason … .you lose.

I would really like to see SIM stop being exploited for economic reasons with bad game play . . .the exploitation affects everybody, repairs costs, spawn costs, rewards in general and the biggest cost of all . . .the actual game and the way an air combat simulation should play out.

Personally, never had to care about the economy, never been concerned with it, just played what caught my fancy and its has been and continues to be a whole lot of fun, but this problem has stagnated the SIM mode and caused a lot of friction and bad blood, I wont say it was a major cause of the recent crisis, but why on earth would anybody pay if there was an easily exploitable mode that gave one a short cut to all the goodies?

Thats the real problem right?

You see . . .this half reward if you don’t land is not because fighters were bailing out . . .it was a bomber exploit. The F4 Rockets was exploited, like the wyvern and a number of air craft . . .not by guys wanting to play air sim, but by guys looking for an easy ride.

The fix is actually really simple . . .Apply SIM flight rules across everybody. No 3rd person, no globally stabilized horizons, enforce cockpits, proper bomb sights, turrets, landings and take offs

Just that will raise the bar enough that exploiters will no longer be able to exploit, because the increase in difficulty will prevent exploitation.

Is shooting named bots an exploit? Of course not, the AI is pretty handy and will give a new player tremors, an average player a run for his money and sure, an experienced player will have some fun with them.

But why was the reward for Named bot kills reduced to nothing and bots not included in custom games . . .while farming lobbies were all the rage?

To tilt the game away from experienced SIM players and towards the exploiters of SIM . . .and that is why we have “Useful Actions” and not rewards for Kills.

Where that path led, is clear for everyone to see . . .I think we should get back to the fundamental of Rewards, the difficulty of the enemy defeated should be proportional to the rewards, dropping laser targeted bombs on a static target from 3rd person view should be at the bottom of the scale and shooting down a maneuvering target in cockpit view with full controls should be top of the food chain. Just loitering around . .should give a small token for take off and landing.

There will be nothing left to exploit

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It does suck that any measures to alleviate exploitation, ends up punishing the entire playerbase.

Fighter play needs to be encouraged more. Little things like better rewards for killing formations might help. Instead of requiring the entire formation to be killed to get points, you should get points for every aircraft you kill in that formation, then more bonus points if/when you complete the task.

Same with Air Superiority tasks. If a player is spending time in the zone, actively participating, they should be rewarded whether they win or lose the task. Just give the winning side an additional bonus. It can be demoralizing losing a superiority task, and getting absolutely nothing for the time you spent fighting for it.

There will always be people looking for the easy way out. And for sim noobs, that usually involves bomber runs. Make fighters more enticing to play (rather than punishing CAS players), and maybe some of those players will also fly fighters. If for nothing more than to break up the monotony of repeated bombing runs.

3 Likes

Right on, and lets not forget, the lack of reward for Air Kills, makes it even harder to grind out the modifications and for a new player trying to enter Air Sim, its a tall task and difficult ask to spade a stock fighter.

Rewards for kills in attacker and bomber formations and capture points will help greatly in that.

Simply bombing will build up the SL and RP and unlock further aircraft . . .but one still has to spade those fighters and you have to kill stuff.

CAS is by no means an easy task, especially with the AAA as of late, enemy players and bots, love a nice low and slow target, I tend to stay away from that particular task, preferring air superiority and for the life of me, my old eyes can’t tell a rock from a tank.

I would love to see some moving trains and railway stations, even bomb targets should be more diverse, rather than just fly straight across the map and mash the space bar over the enemy Air field.

There is just so much potential here, because in the end it is an awfully lovely game, and it is such a shame to reduce the thrill of Air combat and complex military confrontation to the simple numbers of how much SL and RP one can earn by exploiting the economy.

I hope Gaijin finds a way out of this stagnation and starts to develop and improve EC again into a thrilling and complex Air combat simulation.

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Stop wasting your time people,Gaijin dosent give 2 fs about sim.I lost count on the ammount of feedback given on both official means of communication and unoficial,polls,referendums,view gathering,etc.Nothing came out of it.Useful actions is the biggest spit in the face for anyone that knows whats what,paying to spawn in a game mode where team killing is most likely to happen,bombers having 360 view full control of turrets,convoys and minibases aa still shreding despite the supposed nerfs…Also its hilarious to me that the "game masters"are just glorified chat filters with no real atributions regarding the game .These devs have limitations and it shows hard,go play better air sims.

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The one thing Gaijin has never responded to is reverse psychology, in fact they have often rejected good and sane advice merely because it bruised some fragile egos and every thing got relegated to the reverse psychology box and thrown out the window.

The best approach is to simply tell the truth, with out melodrama, present the facts as they are and leave it at that and hope common sense and the obvious, prevail.

If you feel there are better SIMs out there have at it.

Some of us are in for the long haul, and go with the ups and downs.

in the mean time . . .I got my Fix . . .

You might want consider this baby in the Warthunder tech tree🤔

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Why?

People still don’t understand what our job is and what isn’t. “Glorified chat filters” may be a bit harsh, but yes, our main job is the processing of chat related player reports.

Not development.

Not handling technical issues.

Not handling bug reports or suggestions.

There’s dedicated teams and people for those aspects, and no, that’s not the GM’s…

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True. . .but the Term Game master comes from the Dungeon & Dragon style Board game, where the Game master or Dungeon Master controlled the game and made sure that everybody followed the rules.

In this case Game masters should be like referees and ensure fair game play, take griefers and exploiters to task and generally monitor the over all game.

A game masters presence ensure cheaters, griefers, exploiters simply leave the match before they are identified and banned.

I get that that will open up a whole new area of responsibility for the game masters and require dispute resolution, however I think it would be more effective if suspected offenders, like botters and peace server farmers were first called out in real time by the game master and warnings issued and the replay could be analysed in the back ground as per usual for a final solution.

A bit like a police car rolling up and blowing the siren for a bit, more effective than just relying on algorithms and behavioral models.

Anyway . . .food for thought.

PS: The user battle record site seems down, stuck at this page

Anyone can explain me why In a SB I killed 3 player (not bot) respectively with a BR of 12.0 , 11,3, 11,3.
I lost my plane for two times with 45% of average battle activity.
A the end I lost 23k of SL and got only 6k of rewards…it is just ridicolous.
In this way to have a positive balance I should kill at least 6 planes for each respawn? Absolutely unbelievable. Only one player on 1000 can reach this average kill rate!.

Anyone knows what happend to the actual economy changes?

2023-07-09 19_57_57-War Thunder
2023-07-09 19_59_07-War Thunder

Were you playing the tasks?

Completing the mission tasks will reward you more than just racking up kills.

SB is based upon activity time, not actions

So if you got those kills in a short window, and then did little else that game/the game ended, then you will only be rewarded for the time you were active, dont forget you technically “spawned” 3 times, despite dying twice (unless you quit after your second death) so thats 3 respawns costs not 2. Also landing after a sortie rewards the full amount of SLs.

So beyond the obvious advice of “die less”, also try to hit ground targets if you have the ability to do so, if not engage PvE targets in the air and try to land often.

Also landing after a sortie rewards the full amount of SLs.

That’s incorrect! It has always been 50% of the SL when that mechanic was first implemented many years ago.

When the “useful actions” system was added, it replaced the old reward system based on your performance. This new updated mechanic changed the landing reward from 50% to 20% SL going forward.

Before the recent economy roadmap changes took place. They also made some economy adjustments to combat certain loopholes being abused. With these changes, the “useful actions” now registers both SL and RP earnings during every 15 minutes. So SL is not the only variable being checked. You have to consider your RP earnings as well.

When you complete objectives, shoot down a player, kill AI (air/ground), etc. That counts for 80% of the RP & SL up front that you earned during that time out within that activity window. If you want to receive the other 20% RP & SL, then you have to safely land back at your airfield.

the reduction in spawn costs is sufficient for me.
more important than repair costs would be the abolition of usefull action.
besides that, self-made battles should be able to be started with 1 vs 1, the placeholder AI planes need to be added again and the nation settings need to be reworked.

you speak from my soul.
but the mode has potential and because of many epic moments (I’m not ready to give up on sim completely). even small improvements can improve a lot.

but you are right: usefull action (which was 100% rejected) 360° third person bomber and arcade nation settings are totally unacceptable in sim.

ok where are the people whose job this is? Gaijin wants us to use this forum here and not the social networks! ok! well we are here!!! now where are the Gaijin people who answer our sim questions and requests? …

I’d like to see it be “respawn” only and not “spawn” that way you dont start in debt, but otherwise, yeah, the economy changes are made it a lot easier. I actually dont have too much issue with useful actions, but It needs to be far more transparent, with it prehaps telling your percent, whenever it pops up on screen, so you can guage your actions

yes I’ve heard in Discord how stressed some people are about usefull action. “Quick, quick I have to shoot something, I only have 2 minutes left!”. :D
it hurts the gameplay and also the teamwork if you are constantly rushed counting the 15 minutes.
In my opinion the useful action is for the trash can.

I wish I could hide this usefull action message. I don’t even want to know anymore. I just play for fun.

As do I, either way, I rarely if ever go negative, and there is nothing I am saving for at the moment. I do not think action based rewards are right either, something in between or different is needed

Yeah, I wish I could hide more of the UI, but selectively, there is a little I need to keep.

The thing with usefull actions, beside the idea, it’s there is a very bad implementation.

  • When the match ends, they don’t give you the activity, it’s the same that if you died and left the match before the end.
  • If you get TKed, the interrupt the 15 min period too.

And now with the buffed AAA over all the map, except the airfields, it makes it worst.

BAD IDEA, WORST IMPLEMENTATION.

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  • Dynamic repair costs have been enabled for low lifetime in matches: the shorter the lifetime of the vehicle, the lower the repair cost. The repair cost cannot exceed the maximum repair cost displayed on a vehicle’s stat card, which is a fixed repair cost that the vehicle had before the dynamic repair cost mechanic was introduced. If you exit a vehicle by yourself in a match, then the maximum repair cost for that vehicle will be applied, regardless of the time spent in battle with that vehicle.

So. Once again a very nice economic change, that does not mean squat in Enduring Confrontation, since we pay up front. Thx Gaijin (sarcasm).

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Have you tested it?

Maybe you get the difference deducted on your second spawn, if you get killed quickly. If that’s not implemented, I think that would be a reasonable suggestion to be added…