What is going to happen to Enduring Confrontation?

Game Discussion Simulator Battle
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TL;DR I am deepy concerned that none of the upcoming changes will affect the Enduring Confrontation Mode. Please clarify this, devs.

Copy Paste from sudo_su’s post: [Feedback] Economy Revision - Our Plan in Detail - Page 8 - General Discussion - War Thunder - Official Forum

Hi,

Concerning the announced economy revision roadmap, while it is in general very positive and welcomed, SB players are concerned about three of the changes and how they will (or rather will not) affect Air SB EC:

1- Repair costs getting based on life-time:

Quote:

Given this disparity, we have made the decision to refine the system and directly correlate repair costs to the actual lifespan of vehicles. In other words, the shorter time your vehicle remains operational in battle, the lower its repair cost will be (but in any case not higher than a certain limit). This information will be displayed on the stat card of each vehicle, indicating the repair cost per minute alongside the maximum possible repair cost.

2- Removing repair costs when you get teamkilled:

Quote:

Firstly, we will completely remove having to pay for repairs if your vehicle is destroyed by an ally - regardless of the reason that leads to your destruction by a teammate.

3- Including backups with premium vehicles:

Quote:

Furthermore, we plan to provide a set of Backups with each newly acquired Premium vehicle. This means that while players are familiarising themselves with their new vehicle, they will have the ability to respawn if the battle does not quite go to plan.

The problem is, in Air SB EC there are no after-death repair costs.

You pay for your spawn up-front when you spawn, and you will not get refunded for it, regardless of whether you die or not.
Which means these changes will not benefit Air SB EC players, and you will still have to pay full price for your next spawn (or you will have paid full price for your previous spawn depending on how you look at it), even if you get teamkilled, or get killed soon after spawning (i.e. you will not benefit from the new lifetime-based repair cost system).
Furthermore, this means that Air SB EC players can not benefit from the proposed included backups with premium vehicles. (Not only that, but we can’t even benefit from the “free repairs” that are already included with premium vehicles, in the current system)

We will appreciate it if you could ask the devs to address these three issues.

The easy solution to these problems is to change the SB EC economy model to repair-costs-after-death just like all the other game modes (including Ground SB), instead of the current “non-refundable up-front spawn cost” model.
This will enable Air SB EC players to also benefit from the three upcoming changes mentioned above, like all other game modes’ players.

And in fact, I had made a suggestion for it a while ago:

And as you can see it is highly requested by the SB playerbase:

(And despite this, it wasn’t passed to the devs as a suggestion … While suggestions with much lower total and yes votes have been passed)

We would greatly appreciate it if you would address these three issues.

Thanks!

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Spawn costs are what is considered Repair costs in this context. You will notice in the sheet with all the eco changes, there’s the columns for those changes. Yes, confusingly they’e labelled Rep costs there, but still, it’s the same thing.

As to the rest, I assume the same applies for the opther point, as there is no mention that SB EC is excluded from those changes, but again with the confusing misnaming repair vs. spawn costs…

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I am not so sure about that.

While The repair cost are the indicator for the cost to spawn, the mechanic is quite different and makes stuff like backups impossible to use.

Also how will it be when you get shot down by an ally? Since the spawn has already cost you SL, will it be refunded?

Gaijin‘s post does not mention any of this and that‘s why I am asking for clarification regarding the EC mode.

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Yeah, that‘s what the SB community has asked Gaijin to do since its implementation back in 2021

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You do broach an interesting point, SB is so different withwise to economy and such a small percentage of the player base plays SB, that it made sense for them to present the changes for AB/RB. Though it was disappointing that they did not elebarorate on the changes for SB. Though I was relieved that it was at least mentioned, it was more than I was expecting.

I suppose, unless a dev with actual knowledge is able to do a full write up of how the planned changes will be applied to SB. Then we shall just have to wait and hope.

Though I suppose it would be worth pointing out, that whilst SLs are “lost” during the match, technically any SLs gained/lost are fully calculated after the match has ended. Any SL lost from TK for example, could be “refunded” then. Though I am not sure how they’ll do time-based repair costs in SB,.

At least we know one thing for certain. Most aircraft are getting an increase in SL/Min and a major reduction in spawn cost. It should be far harder to go broke in a single match.

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Since EC is a long format and it is expected that one will die, plus earnings are activity and time based, one of the best things that could happen is that Repair cost is deducted once you die and not at spawn.

If someone can last the duration of the match, and not die, however unlikely . . .that should be rewarded by not having to pay a repair cost where one was not required.

On average most players will have multiple deaths, one odd player will be able to survive with no deaths, so from an overall economic point of view, it will have no impact, but for the individual, it will be very meaning full. For those who have no battle activity and just loiter around in the match . . .they will have no earnings.

While it will impact only a few players, it will make everybody really happy.

Yah . . .and trains . . .we need trains

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I think the big issue with repair costs are the PvE lobbies, where players would not pay any repair costs. Based on the spreadsheet, the play time to break even should come down to about 16 minutes (at 100% activity) for the most expensive planes (early jets) and more typically around 7-10 minutes for top-tier jets. I hope that this improves the economy for players enough that they can engage in more PvP without going broke. If the premium account loss insurance works for this, I expect it’ll help many players.

However, I find the useful activity system a lot rougher for fighter aircraft as the gains tend to be less uniformly spread across the play time. That said, I’m not a good fighter pilot, so take it for what it’s worth. Depending on how the multi-kill bonuses apply to SB, it could still work out.

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Well, the repair cost decrease is going to hit also SB as you will pay less upfront to spawn in, so no more 47k B-57A or other expensive things.

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I guess they are adding Battle Pass tasks to ground Battles, hope they figure out how to add it to EC. That would be a really great addition for SIM.

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Sim players have been left out of events for too long. We deserve to have BP challenges and Daily Tasks that’s tailored for Air EC. Especially as paying players!

I hope they consider Time-of-Play as part of achievements, since many times you can spend a lot of time in a match, but barely see other players, even though you’re contributing by doing the EC tasks.

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I’d also like to add that we deserve the ability to use free repairs and backups like all the other modes offer. This is a huge boost to a players economy efforts that we as sim players have been robbed of.

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I totally agree

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Economy (useful action) what we have now are result of lack game master and Gajin response to these farming lobby’s.

For Shure we don’t want RB bs like “last standing” game mode.

My dream mode is EC with bigger map occasionally lauching ground battles some where on the middle map fighting for square.

Or in my best dreams some thing like IL2 BoS like online campaign front serwers. With “normal” rewards…

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How should “useful action” be due to a lack of game masters?!?

If you encounter players/clans with questionable comportment, just report them the regular way and we take care of them…

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Why don’t we go back to the simple kill stuff and get paid. People were free to loiter around and do nothing, they would not get any reward. Just that would stop the bots.

Air kills which had the highest skill requirement got maximum reward, you could pay out on number of engines, so a 4 engine bomber could be counted as 4 kills.

The average farmer, plays custom matches with no bots, because he has a tough time killing named bots any way. Named bot kills could be half of Player kills.

Put a check for maximum time on ground and boot bots that are taxiing in circles.

Rewards for bomber and attacker formation kills should be 1/3.

Keep bombing rewards as is. Bomber gunner kills can be 1/4 or divided by number of turrets.

Straight forward and transparent for both Gaijin and the player.

Sorry to say, but this useful action thing is over complicated and a symptom of refusing to acknowledge the economic exploits. Bring it back to real kills and actual actions and all the problems will disappear.

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I think he means that if lobbies were looked at more closely from time to time, game masters would easily find those responsible for botting instead of creating a system that punishes the whole SB playerbase due to a few bad apples

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Yeah, but this is not our job. We can of course report those instances when we notice them (just like any other player), but it’s neither our reponsibility nor in our powers to deal with those players directly.

We’re mainly responsible for chat related offenses, not gameplay abuse.

For gameplay abuse, reporting via server replay functionality is the best way to go.

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Thats unfortunate , Gamemasters are like the Referee for a match and can boot and ban players. Maybe you guys should sue for a raise in privilege levels . . .would be far more effective

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Here we go again. How meany reports I send last year?? How meany bans you gave ??

Gajin way it’s not our job… Better introduce useful action and punish whole SB community than just ban bots acc. Well… Hands down…

EC going into “PvE” mode bacase countless number games filed by bot acc.

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I like having tasks that attract action. Without them, matches used to be a boring search effort for me, sometime not encountering anybody to kill. And I don’t see any good reason to reduce rewards for killing bombers and attacker formations. How are rewards a bad thing?..

I think the useful actions system is pretty good actually, it just needs to be more rewarding. Useful actions focus the action to specific areas of the map, making matches much more eventful, and creating usefulness for all types of aircraft.

I’m hoping Gaijin will create BP and Daily tasks that will make use of the Useful Actions system, and time spent (in the areas of these actions to prevent bots), since EC events can be up to 3 hours. Making tasks that just count on kill metrics alone would not be a good solution. Some matches, it’s just hard to rack up kills due to bad luck, or just not seeing a whole lot of players. And by time you realize you had a bad match, 3 hours has passed, and you may have no tasks completed.

1 Like