Oof thats a lot of points, but at least you can get it for free.
crew slots? there are enough whidout need to get more with GE, unless you play arcade
Backups? I got many of those from the login rewards alone.
Bushes? only at low tier stuff, with thermals those are usless.
Crews? maybe a little, go try see WOT where you have active skills on them and you cant play whidout.
Lots of valid points (bushes and crew slots being the most accurate), though you already got the usual lap dogs twisting your points to justify some pretty questionable practices.
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its a lot yes. its worth the grind for as it shaves a lot of time off of repairs and reloads
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Spaded F4U-4. Did a test flight
Maxed crew
Dive from ~2km, accelerate to 720 km/h and make a 180 degree turn with full elevator deflection.
JUST about lose conciousness after completing the turn, but maintain control.
Do 360 degree turn at 600 km/h without a hint of passing out.
level 2/level 1.5 G/stamina
Repeat the dive, black out about halfway into the turn with vignettes appearing as I pull up.
Accelerate to 600 km/h and do a flat turn (full deflection). Black out completely after about 180 degrees.
While neither is a maneuver you’d do realistically, it does show the gulf of capability.
In real dogfighting you’d see such come up in a spiralling descent from high altitude maintaining 500 km/h as you keep trying to outturn your opponent.
Having a G-suit probably exacerbates things.
Comparing things to WoT is not a bar you want to compare yourself to.
Compare yourself to Dota 2:
PvP game. Both teams are equal at the start of the match, no differnce in capabilities beyond the units they picked in a public drafting stage that’s considered part of the match with entire strategies around out-drafting the opponent. You have full access to all units.
The only difference between the 2 teams comes down to player skill, teamwork and strategy.
“But dota2 is not an MMO with grinding!”
Okay.
Let’s look at Guild Wars 2.
PvP arena - both teams are given fixed weapons and fixed levels so that they start at an equal footing rather than have the battle decided by grind or wallets.
Let’s look at FF14.
Same deal - PvP arena gives you fixed gear and stats.
Let’s look at the infamous, grindiest MMO there is: Old School Runescape.
Wilderness PKing does have disparities, but it’s also usually hated by most anyway.
Deadman mode, the big PvP event, has players all start on equal footing. Gearing and progression is part of the limited-time tournament.
Last Man Standing has players start with fixed stats and gear with any progression being part of the game mode and isolated.
Now, EVE online might be something to think of and indeed…
When EVE online introduced the ability to spend real money to sell premium time to other players for in-game cash, a lot of veteran corporations and alliances made a lot of noise and complaints for such NOT to be made possible because it is literally paying to win. You’d make your claim of “Pay to Progress”, but when wars in EVE are decided by industry and economy, the ability to bypass that whole industry/economy by pouring money into the game things get very sketchy.
Notice the trend?
PvP games are making an effort and going out of their way to make sure the only thing they’re measuring is individual skill, teamwork, game knowledge and strategy/drafting.
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What You have said:
So none paying one doesn’t have access to it.
As I have said:
There isn’t anything contradictory in it.
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People look down on league of legends for not letting both teams that are drafting heroes to pick freely.
Dota 2 is considered a better E-sports game for this reason: Anyone who starts playing Dota 2 has access to the full roster, including any and all newly released heroes immediately.
League of Legends, while theoretically you can unlock every hero - due to the progress gating, a rather insidious company practice emerges in over-tuning newly released heroes so that people who pay to progress can abuse them in drafts with those who didn’t being unable to do the same.
Dota 2 is not without faults, but it is a shining example of what a PvP game should be:
Equal teams, differentiated only by individual skill, teamwork and strategy (including equal drafting access).
Edit:
In fact, League used to have a terrible mechanic around “runes” that you could either buy outright, or grind out slowly to unlock them. This meant people had a distinct advantage over others, and was rightfully criticized (and Dota 2 claimed superiority for not having such an idiotic system).
Lo and behold, modern League no longer has unlockable runes or summoner spells. Every player has access to every rune and every summoner spell at all times, limited only by the slots they can fill during the drafting stage. Everyone shares the same amount of slots.
Funnily enough, people also claimed rune pages weren’t P2W despite the marked advantage paying gave you over others, especially due to the flexibility in drafting.
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those aspect arn’t really pay to win, a pay to win game is a game where good stuff is hide being a paywall. for exemple it would be pay to win if a completly broken tank is only avaible with purchase which is true with the F14IAF, turm III, 279 and pt76-57 and other tank, everything you mentionned can be obtain without paying, for exemple i’ve never bough a single backup in my entire life and still has like 155, ace crew are really compicated to get on vehicle even more on tank due to less rp gain but since the ace crew is crazy expensive and that the difference between both isn’t worth the price most of the time you will stick to the expert crew, bush are the thing that is the most p2w in your list due to the fact that they are rarely avaible and can give a unfaire advantage over someone who don’t own one and for the crew slot its not really p2w bcs most of the time you won’t spawn 5 vehicle, even though its should change I personnaly doesn’t have any problem with some of my 5 vehicle lineup. so overall the game has some p2w aspect with some of the most broken tank behind paywall but most of the stuff is quite ok, it would be a P2W if for example you can get a premium cammonet that would hide your thermal signature, premium repair kit and other thing that only people spending money can get access to.
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Agreed.
You’ve got the usual shills in here acting like having to play literal MONTHS if not over a YEAR worth of in-battle hours just to unlock an aced crew on a SINGLE vehicle for free isn’t absolute madness and a peak example of how decrepit this game is in many aspects.
“B-but it’s “P2P”, not P2W hurr-durr…”
How does that make this ANY less worse???
You don’t get to claim your game is “P2P” when you force a player to grind HUNDREDS if not THOUSANDS of hours just to obtain something that can be instantly unlocked for less than 10 USD.
You’ve made the “free” progression to unlock this P2W feature blatantly unobtainble for anyone who isn’t a jobless grease troll living in their mothers basement playing this game 5+ hours daily.
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Good job on not mentioning premiums as a whole. Most people say the game’s premiums are P2W (5% true), but it’s rather pay to progress (P2P). Well though out post :)
Doesn’t mean P2P is right though…
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Where anyone said that it makes it less worse?
If you have at least 6 vehicles to put in a lineup, you’ve still played quite a bit. Is it impossible to pay 20 euros for a bit of premium and a few GE? Or maybe you work for free?
no one pays for backups, you get plenty of them with warbons or just playing. I myself have never bought one and I have more than 200 without counting those I won for particular vehicles
and sorry but if you don’t know how to look at the economic model before getting started. In all f2p games the free part is a discovery part so to speak. the “real” content has to drop a little money, nothing is free.
They really sound like childish comments.
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Dota 2.
Team fortress 2.
Warframe.
Not everything is Wargaming/WoT or EA bollocks.
it is obvious that I was talking about F2P which falls into the same circle as war thunder. by the need to talk about a fruit when we talk about a vegetable
There has been multiple people in this thread acting like the examples OP gave aren’t a major problem in this game.
Bringing up WOT as a counter arguement to how garbage the process of unlocking aced crews for free is (12.0 vehicles like Leclerc S1 will take a F2P player easily hundreds if not a thousand hours) needs to be studied in it’s own right.
I used to play WOT before swapping to WT and I will gladly club Gaijin over the head when I notice them act just like Wargaming by coaxing players to spend cash just to have their vehicle perform equal to those who pay for improved crew skills.
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It’s a PvP game.
In a PvP game, you compare player skill, teamwork and strategy.
Quoting my previous post:
And earn golden Eagles too.
Mmmm, more chatGPT nonsense.
1- 5 crew slots are entirely free, which gets you all but air arcade. Air arcade, more than 5 crew slows is indeed a bonus more than not.
2- Backups are entirely free to play:
3- Crew skills are 100% free to play with options.
4- Bushes are free to play and offer no camouflage for any tanks except L3/33.
You’ve listed zero pay to win examples.
@Unit_8
If bushes were pay to win everyone would be using them, but they don’t cause they’re useless for BRs above 1.0.
Bushes are an aspect of pay to progress but the 3 pack vehicles are “Pay to Win”. As they have things the Tech Tree counterparts do not. Just want to mention this.
It isn’t ChatGPT (I think) because it actually talks about war thunder.
They are incredibly pay to win. How is being able to buy a massive advantage not pay to win? They are also gated behind alot of earned RP, which doesn’t make for a good experience.
Objectively incorrect.
They are very useful in obscuring silhouettes and hiding weakspots.
I’d also like to add: If they aren’t pay to win, what would be wrong with being able to disable them like fictional camos?
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