War Thunder is pay to win

There’s too many P2W aspects of War Thunder that cannot be ignored. Using money gives a player a massive advantage in game. The most relevant aspects are as follows, and they all can be bought with GE (Golden Eagles).

Why I made this post

Recently, I have seen a large increase in the amount of premium vehicles in matches. This is not a problem by itself, but it brought my attention to the advantages paying players have in WT. I also had a match in GRB which a player spawned 11 vehicles (having 15 kills). This person was basically unstoppable, and is what you get when you combine a skilled player and a paying player.

Another recent development we have seen is the addition of the first premium platoon pack, the German “Two Fronts Pack”. It is two Tigers and an Ostwind. The vast amount of premium vehicles available in some nations really is stunning.

1. Crew slots

NO ALTERNATIVE OPTION TO GE
Additional crew slots give the most important advantage in Ground Realistic and Air Arcade battles: the ability to spawn more tanks or aircraft in the battle. The first 5 crew slots are either free or available for SL (Silver Lions). But 5 more are available, and only for GE!!!
The cost:
5th Slot: 200 GE 6th Slot: 500 GE 7th Slot: 800 GE 9th Slot:1200 GE 10th Slot: 1800 GE
(source unreliable, but I can confirm cost for 5th and 6th slot)

2. Backups

Backups are one of the lesser monetized aspects of War Thunder. You can get them in the warbond shop and from daily chests. However, the amount available to a F2P player is limited and needs to be carefully rationed to last. In comparison, players using money can buy them for 60 GE a pop, and spam backups in every battle. This is a huge advantage, especially given that backups allow players to use the most powerful vehicles available twice.

By combining backups with crew slots, a player can spawn up to 20 planes in AAB or 20 tanks/planes in GRB. This is 4x as much compared to use of 5 crew slots and no backups. Of course, there is usually not enough time or SP to spawn the maximum possible, but this still shows the massive difference in potential.

3. Crew skills

Crew skills are another important factor where GE is important. By purchasing crew skills, player will get ahead much faster than without payment. And a reminder, crew skills affect tens of important parameters of vehicle’s performance!
CrewSkills_Aircraft_training
source: Crew skills - War Thunder Wiki
There are 3 separate segments of crew skills: the individually upgraded skills, expert, and ace. Crew skills are slowly gained through hundreds of hours of play… or bought using GE.

Basic Crew Skills

Reference

Basic crew skills make up 50% of the total crew skill potential.

(1000 GE buys 17,500 points):
Air skills: 33,881 points (23,553 without defensive armament upgrades)
Ground skills: 71,130 points
Naval skills: 50,571 points

These points are hard to earn. 100 RP in AB gives 3 points; 100 RP in RB and SB gives 1 point.

Example

The air and ground trees in WT take about 5 to 10 million RP to research. Heli trees are about 1 to 2 million RP. Naval is about 4 million.

Consider a specific example:
Using values from January 2023 (~2 years ago) for China ground, heli and air (mid-sized tree).
Total RP: 14,529,300 RP (Source: Reddit post)
If you researched the entire tree:

  • playing RB/SB only, you would get ~145,000 crew points
  • playing half AB and half RB/SB, you would get ~290,000 crew points
  • playing AB only, you would get ~435,000 crew points

Consider the second case where you get half the RP from AB and half from RB/SB. Assuming you had 6 crew slots, that would be about 48,000 crew points per slot. Considering the crew training costs shown above for reference, that is still not half enough for full upgrade! I was personally shocked by my calculations and thought I might have made an error, even.

This example shows you how hard it is to fully upgrade the basic crew skills.

Ace Crew

Text

The ace status of a crew is 20% of the total crew skill potential. Despite this, an aced crew is excessively hard to get without paying real money.
For a high tier vehicle, rank VI and up, it costs about 1,000,000 RP or more to gain Ace qualification for free. Even for the average rank IV vehicle, it cost about 500,000 RP. This is extremely excessive. Speaking from personal experience, I have never gotten a free Ace qualification on ANY vehicle.

Or you could just buy Ace qualification, starting at ~2200 GE for top tier vehicles.

4. Bushes

Bushes are one of the most complained about aspects of War Thunder, and with good reason. They are very effective at concealing tanks, especially at long ranges.

The only way to get a bush for free is to spend 2,200 warbonds in the warbond shop FOR A RANDOM BUSH. The option to buy a bush only appears once every two battle pass cycles (each battle pass lasts 90 days).

Due to these factors, it is hard to get a good bush from the bush gacha. However, players can also simply spend 500 GE and buy any bush of their choosing. Resultingly, only paying players can access properly concealing bushes.

These features do not belong in War Thunder.

We should oppose these clearly unfair features and support the addition of free alternatives.

50 Likes

I remember some guy said “if bushes aren’t P2W, then let everyone use them since they’re purely cosmetic, right?”

He was so right.

I may agree more or less with the other points but bushes are something they definitely have to deal with.

34 Likes

I was expecting thunder to be a rant about premiums, but I was pleasantly surprised.

Crew skills are by far the most pay to win thing in war thunder due to them giving you a massive advantage for $$$.

If bushes weren’t pay to win, then players should have the option to hide them right? If they didn’t give an advantage, that shouldn’t matter.

I disagree with backups being pay to win due to them being relatively easy to get, but I can see your point.

30 Likes

Yet they’re not pay to win, I haven’t bought any, and I have so many bushes.

5 Likes

Pay to progress not win. You forget you can get gold for free while playing the game so a few of those things you mentioned can be covered by that but again that’s progression of convenience not winning.

A couple premiums are OP ka50 the perfect example but in most cases they are well balanced so not pay to win.

6 Likes

NGL a moving bush the size of a tank is often easier to spot than an unbushed tank. Everything else there isn’t a “Pay to Win” but a “Pay to Progress”. backups, ace crews and skills are all available to freemium players, and 5 free slots isn’t a massive disadvantage over 10 as people almost never make enough SP in a match to run all of them.

4 Likes

Ace crew skills are definitely pay to win. Especially the reload time. I have gotten outreloaded by aced players a dozen time. Paying lions is okay but not real money.

5 Likes

pay to progress isnt pay to win tho.

6 Likes

All of this are P2P - Pay to Progress.

WT is P2P not P2W. Know the difference.

18 Likes

Given the rather absurd time to progress, especially to ace crews, it is pay to win.

Getting JUST max G/Stamina is 500K RP. That’s 50 games of 90 minute ASB games.

50 games where you are markedly inferior to your competition and unable to execute the same maneuvers they can in the same aircraft.

An aced pilot can sustain a 7G turn without blacking.
An “As intended” progression to something like a bf109F4 or a6m3 will have you black out simply doing a split S onto someone’s tail in a BnZ.

it’s a ridiculous level of difference comparing my maxed crew for crew slot #2 versus my crew slot #5.

4 Likes

It is still P2P not P2W as You are paying to get it faster.

7 Likes

All, except for crew slots.
I would agree that War Thunder as a whole is not P2W, it is pay to progress. (I made the title as clickbait)
You cannot get more than 5 crew slots in any other way than paying GE. Or maybe getting 10 referrals, but that only gives one anyways.

1 Like

You can earn GJN and buy GE - still P2P not P2W.

*not talking about consoles.

1 Like

Farm tradeable coupon in events, sell, buy gold, buy crew slots = 0 dollars

2 Likes

if you wanted to show P2W probably should have mentioned 2s38, Wyvern and KA50 tbh

Still can be obtained by simply playing the game - P2P.

1 Like

Yes, you could say so. There are many ways of getting GE or other premium products for free - tournaments, selling event vehicles on Market, making a skin that Gaijin officially adds to the game, Thundershow, watching advertisements on 3rd party apps, lucky drop from a chest, etc.

My point in my post is not to say that War Thunder is P2W, despite the title. The point is that paying players have a large advantage over players who do not pay as much. You could say, you could get this and that with time. But, time is also of the essence. I believe that although War Thunder might not be P2W, that these issues with monetization are still important for the community to address.

I’m not saying that the issues You have talked about don’t exist.

I’m pointing out that what You are describing is P2P - Pay to progress, not P2W.

2 Likes

you can get GE through marketplace sales so its technically possible for them to be “Play to Win” but in reality acquiring that much GE from GJN is unviable and impossible for console sufferers.

I called them Pay to Win because they are OP. 2s38 is undertiered and can do near enough everything with easy dominance, you pay to win against enemies. The Wyvern is OP because you can just ignore enemies and base bomb, its a massive money printer making expert crew slots easy to acquire, pay to win air matches by ticket bleeding and pay to progress through its RP and SL printing ability. KA50 is a money printer from 10km away and can survive being severely damaged, Pay to win as long as you don’t suck

It isn’t about spotting it, it’s about being able to identify it and hit it’s weakspots.

Crew skills are entirely pay to win because they lock a massive advantage behind a huge grind, or you can just pay some GE to skip it.

6 Likes