Any serious conversation requires the willingness to understand the other side. This requires also the necessity to read what others wrote - just in order to come to the right conclusion.
Discussions are not there to “win” an exchange of words, the main goal is to reflect own positions by trying to understand underlying motivations of others with deviating opinions.
Often the most important things are not expressed in words, so the key to understand others is also to think about what was not said.
So listening (or in this case reading) of deviating opinions shows not only respect, it is also the minimum requirement for any exchange.
Any fruitful discussion produces a mutual benefit by seeing topics from different perspectives. This reflection might result in a change of opinions - or not, it actually doesn’t matter.
So to make this clear:
If i would like to have an advise - i would have asked.
If i would have a problem with the game - i would not play it.
If i see completely irrational posts in a public forum and i am somehow affected - i reply to them.
I mean, no offense, but with replies to others on this level you show simply that you are either not willing or not capable to acknowledge deviating positions.
This is actually irrelevant for this forum, but you will face serious issues irl if you don’t understand that listening to others and trying to investigate their real motivations is the key to get along with others, no matter in business or private issues.
There is zero benefit of posting something like that:
…when the person you are replying to has stated this 2 posts earlier:
And something like that:
…shows that you have severe issues to understand the basic principle of examples; sometimes you have to use exaggerated examples to point out logical flaws.
I don’t consider WT to be P2W, but it’s a game with heavy P2P elements for sure.
Crew skills are probably the strongest example, as level 0 crew is much, much worse than Aced one and you can skip all that grind by just paying up.
That is still only a heavy amount of P2P.
Something is P2W if you have no way of getting something related to gameplay without paying, no matter how hard you try.
Crew skills should be reworked to reduce the difference between 0 and Aced though.
Why do you think that “p2w” means the thing you pay for is not attainable another way?
Imagine there is a Lion I can buy that will one-shot any character in some game. I can get it by playing, it’ll take a year or two of grinding, it’s a difficult to acquire endgame item. But I can get it today, for $999.99, and kill everyone in the game. Is this p2w? I can get it /eventually/. Of course it is. It’s also an extreme and unrealistic example, but the principle is the same. Being able to pay to make your performance better in any dimension without earning it through gameplay is p2w.
This is just fanboy cope nonsense that people say to allow them to believe that their favourite game isn’t p2w. In discussions on this topic for every single f2p game you have people applying these same caveats to try to argue the game isn’t p2w. It’s so dishonest.
But in any event, the OP premium vehicles still exist. Ka-50? Yeah. Just because they nerf it a year after they sell it to everyone doesn’t mean it wasn’t p2w.
Just right off, the fact he spawned 11 vehicles in very clearly shows he was anything but unstoppable. It sounds like he got pounded.
Also, backups are so not P2W. I’m not pay to win and I have hundreds of backups just from the war bond shop. Pretty sure I have 283 at the moment. I had 300 something at one point but then I stopped buying them for a little while.
Being able to spawn more vehicles doesn’t make you better, it just means you are getting destroyed a whole lot more.
Crew skills I would say can be P2W, but if you play and just remember to upgrade crew skills it doesn’t matter much.
While bushes are extremely annoying they did add physics to them so you can just knock them off. Bushed tanks being effective is more due to lack of team coordination than anything else. For instance if you and three players are driving out in a field and suddenly one of you blows up the other two should look around to see where it came from. 9 times out of 10 the other two players just keep driving and get destroyed too which is a clear sign of of no team play, but this is Warthunder, so that is kind of expected. Bushes are powerful when used properly but they are easily countered by a little bit of team intelligence.
To be clear I absolutely hate bushes but they aren’t going to be removed regardless. The best option would be to squad with competent players and then just keep an eye on any tree lines and bushes.
Why do you think that is what P2W and P2P mean? Is it because you absorbed those definitions from hopeless fanboys trying desperately to believe their favourite game isn’t P2W?
Who’s dooming? I personally don’t really care at all. I have quite a few of the vehicles I’d consider P2W, because they’re more effective and make grinding easier and a little more fun. But I’m not trying to pretend I didn’t pay to get a higher win rate. :)
I mean, I P2W’d most of the way through the brit tech tree with the Sea Vixen. It’s crazy how effective that thing is.
I think the main thing he means is that you can either buy or grind all features in the game. Some things take forever to grind though. So if we’re being picky it is pay to progress. If we are just getting a point across, it is pay to win. It’s all perspective really.
That being said, some vehicles do strike me as pay to win.
I personally don’t care that much either, I have a lot of experience playing the game and my crews are pretty good. I also don’t think we have P2W premiums.
Absolutely not the same. Does premium vehicle have much better statistics than regular one?
Do player with expert crew have much better statistics than regular players?
Premium vehicle and expert crew are far away from that lion you are talking about.
For sure, it gives you some benefits, but they are not so significant.
For example, sometimes I have onely 2 crew members, meaning that my reload rate drops drastically. However, I am still able to survive till the end of the battle and even kill other tanks.
Statistics we do not know. But the effect of a fully upgraded crew is massive. Almost every single aspect of vehicle’s performance is impacted.
In air: The maximum tolerable G load, as well as the stamina to hold an excess G load is impacted, being one of the most important aspects of a fight. The detection distance differs, not only for enemies, but also for missiles! Health of the pilot, the firing time of the gun without jamming. Accuracy and firing properties of defensive armament, especially effective in Arcade. And even the accuracy and precision of the plane’s secondary armament is affected.
In ground: Multiple seconds advantage in loading. Faster acceleration due to gear changing. Many times the health. Advantage in repairing, crew rotation, gun tracking (L to \ movement), artillery precision and reaction times. Massive difference in turret traverse speed, accuracy of shots even. Large difference in enemy detection distance. And as recently reported out - even the visibility and hearing of enemy tanks is governed by crew skills.
Strongly disagree. I know games that are 100% p2w, where you literally purchase power and your personal skill and knowledge of game mechanics does not matter.
In WT the influence of money is not so significant. Except for making a progress in research, vehicle/crew development and getting silver lions.
Try to do an experiment - max your crew and you will see that nothing will change. Do it for low BR vehicle, it will not cost you much. Actually, free GE provided for training missions and other activities, should be enough.
There are also mobile apps that can give you some GE.
Seriously, try it and make your own conclusion, based on real experience, not on theoretical statements.
I have some maxed crews, as well as premium vehicle.
You should watch your terminology. You likely talk about acing the crew for the vehicle. That will not max the crew. Maxing a tank crew should cost around 5000GE. Ace you can get for 10GE.
The other person is talking about a fully upgraded crew, which is maxed AND aced. Just saying.
Especially in Air RB having a level 75 crew and an aced plane is a massive advantage in any 1 vs 1. The fact that you are unable to use this advantage does not mean that i doesn’t exist.
Seriously - u flew in the last 5 months nothing else than the USSR premium P-39 A-5 and the regular Yak-3 - both are imho undertiered and in the right hands extremely powerful aircraft - but you are unable to use their full potential.
Same here - out of the top 10 of my aircraft 8 are aced and flown with max crew, it doesn’t matter if it’s a fighter or bomber.