When I started to play tanks, I did it in a mix of maxed out and green tank crews. I performed equally poor in all of them. Today, I perform still poor in all maxed out tank crews. I am not convinced that acing the vehicles will change that. ;-)
I agree I still think only sesional/players that play couple of years can somehow benifit with maxed crew if they know map really good. I still think in Ground battles knowing map is all you need to know and also weak spots
Laughs in Turm 3, 2S38, T80UD, J7D, RDF/LT (still bad but at least better than the HSTV-L)
All of these things have been under BR’d for up to years, these one’s are particularly bad because they don’t have any tech tree counterparts and are just blatantly broken. This has been a theme for a very long time and there’s been others like the IS6 in the past that were just like these are currently. These are just inarguably P2W vehicles that you need to pay real money to obtain.
Sure, I can win fights even with my noob crews.
However, you cannot deny the fact that my noob crew blacked out after 21 seconds of turning with a virtual enemy, while my expert crew maintained conciousness until the ground told me to stop (at least 35 seconds, likely could last longer if I had infinite altitude to keep trading for speed to maintain 5.5G turn)
This has come up for me **numerous times**.
Once, I had a 1vs1 THAT I WON against a bf109K4 in my P-51-D-5 using the “noob crew slot” (since I already had F4U-4/4B taking up my high level slots for that BR bracket). We started the exact maneuver in the video - diving from 4 km altitude and turning hard to try and shake me. I’m pulling lead, we’re about the same speed as I’m neither closing nor falling behind and suddenly - I’m flying straight towards the ground while he pulled a vertical. Luckily, there was still 1.5km to go so I recovered and managed to predict where he was to resume the chase. If I was in my experted crew slot, I’d have probably got the shot. 50 seconds later I managed to get the killing shot.
My BF109K4 done far more extreme maneuvers than I did, too - being on the defensive and dodging gunfire while I was just riding his tail.
Another time, I posted video - I’m doing a vertical fight with a XP-50. XP-50 dives, I dive with him. He rolls and pulls up. I roll and pull up. I pass out before I finish and lose track of him from blacking out and fly straight after leveling out. As you can see from my earlier testing - this maneuver would have had no effect on me if I was using my maxed crew slots rather than the noob slot as a consequence of "I’m gonna learn Bf109F4 to the level of F4U-4!
Another time, I’m in an I-185 (completely untrained crew. Only lobby I felt like playing in terms of “has more than 6 players both sides” and “has decent ping” and “is on a map I like” was only joinable by soviets. So soviet time. I got into a turnfight with a Bf109 and… passed out turning in a flat circle. As you can see, the expert crew wouldn’t pass out even if doing 5.5G for 35 seconds.
Most recently, I decided to try learning the spitfires because “i’m ready.” Noob crew again because I used to only main 'murica and that’s it. Well, I end up in a sustained rate fight against some bf109 and turn with him and start gaining position and then screen blacks out and I fly straight for some 2-3 seconds. You’d think a spitfire would win a turn rate contest with a bf109, right?
Big problem is, I want to avoid the stigma of “single-nation meta plane only main” and made it kind of my goal to try and fly a fighter/interceptor from every big WW2 player (Britain, USA, Italy, Japan, Germany, USSR, maybe french? Their domestic designs are kinda early war-ish tho) and do it enough that I become familiar enough with them all to be able to play confidently against them.
I’m not even vying for big epic shiny jets. I just wanna “be a well-rounded WW2 pilot and eliminate bias/reliance on potentially OP planes.” Crew skills though have been constantly making it way harder than it should be since I know these maneuvers are very much possible AND effective… in my american planes with maxed crew.
Hey do you know how GJN is acquired? People still have to buy it, they’re just paying for an event vehicle and someone else gets their money. Its still P2W. Also you’d be better off spending the time grinding events (especially in lower tiers) actually working a job and just paying for the premiums.
Again, people still need to spend money to get these things, having a marketplace just makes it so someone is paying for anothers purchases. It’s still P2W
I am not going to argue about these vehicles being p2w as I simply don’t know. But you don’t need to pay real money for them. I could simple exchange my event trophy for it. I have done that many times.
But then you would pay to win. ;-)
Yes and selling your event vehicle still means someone paid for that vehicle, why are people acting like GJN is being printed and handed out for free. People have to BUY it still. These premiums can only be obtained by someone one way or another spending money on the game. This isnt a hard concept to understand Gaijin is still making money off this VIA people buying GJN.
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They’re still P2W vehicles, someone still has to spend money on it. Just because you sell an item for GJN doesn’t mean that the vehicle isn’t P2W.
The game is balanced around the fact that a new player won’t start at rank 3 unless they bought a premium. Unlocking and spading rank 1 and 2 should give you enough crew XP to close the gap for the most important skills. If you chose to skip that grind and also skip straight to sim, well, your crews will obviously reflect that.
Let’s look at my china tree because I havn’t touched that one at all.
Let’s pick P-47D23RA as our goal aircraft.
RP to unlock rank 2: we need 6 vehicles and already own 2.
Ki-27 Otsu for 2900 RP (29 skill XP)
CW-21 for 4000 RP (40 skill XP)
I-16 for 2900 RP (29 skill XP)
I-153 m63 for 4000 RP (40 skill XP).
We have gained 138 skill XP unlocking rank 2.
RP to unlock rank 3: We need 6 aircraft
P-66 7900 (79)
p-40 9200 (92)
P-43 5300 (53)
I-16 t10 7900 (79)
i-16 t17 9200 (92)
A29 7900 (79)
474 skill xp.
Finally, we get P-47D23RA for 18K RP (180 crew XP).
Our final is 654 crew XP.
Adding up (22+64+110+160)x2 for G+stamina, we get 712 crew XP needed to get both G-tolerance and stamina to level 2. This is NOWHERE enough to even take an expert to compensate (only a level 4 crew at best and we need level 10). We can’t even afford to have both level 2 G and stamina.
Spading the P-47 takes 19.9K RP, so 199 crew XP. We go from 654 to 853 - enough to actually get the 712 we needed for level 2 in both G and stamina. To get 2.5, we need 215 more (712+215=920) - NOT enough. We still cannot expert our crew.
We pass out if we exceed 4.8G for 21 seconds (at least at sustained 5.5G without any significant spikes above or below 5.5).
Now, this is less of an issue for the P-47 as it’s not a turn fighter and has bad MER, but do the same for Bf109F4 or A6M3 or MkIX Spitfire - all aircraft with excellent retention known for doing a lot of turning for one reason or another.
Meanwhile my maxed american crew can casually sit at 5.5G without even a hint of greying out and only has to stop due to running out of altitude to maintain the 5.5G consistently (a 5 kilometer spiral)
And we still havn’t improved keen vision and awareness at all so we will see planes phase out of existence while looking at them.
Oh, and as a new player you want rank 3 planes. Rank 2 planes got terrible visibility, lack trim and got questionable gunsights. 3.0+ BR also feels way more popular than 1-3 for finding lobbies.
I mentioned using and spading rank 1 and 2 before moving on to rank 3. I have everything spaded at those tiers so I can’t tell you exactly how much crew XP each plane gives, but even the most sparse trees have 15-20 planes to use before moving on to rank 3, big nations have at least double.
Also, consider that most new players will start playing arcade first. Arcade gives more crew XP. Players jumping straight into sim are a minority.
Just because it’s a minority does not mean it does not happen.
Yesterday alone I had a game at 2.7-3.7 where I shot this guy down:
Another guy from the same screenshot:
Another name i can pick out from that screenshot of a cool moment is…
Why would these players go straight to ASB?
Their names all include @psn. Controller players. They seem to average around 2-3 hours of AAB, 2-3 hours of ARB. Likely this made them decide “not having mouse to aim with is putting me at a massive disadvantage” and went to play the mode where they’re on even footing.
And as said, rank 1/rank 2 planes are genuinely harder to fly than rank 3 ones due to cockpits, trim and gunsight (i hate telescopic gunsights).
I’m not saying it doesn’t. I’m saying you kinda have to go out your way compared to the average player for it to be a big issue. For example, I had the same problem with the Israel tree, but you’re expected to be a more or less experienced player before you start grinding that one. By that point you probably know you can farm crew experience in AB or Assault before heading into RB/SB.
I don’t know why we have to debate the truth a company has to earn money in order to run servers and pay wages?
So if I can - without paying money, just by playing - trade in a good vehicle in exchange for a far less usefull collectors item, this good vehicle isn’t exactly behind a paywall. After all, the other person usually spends his dollar on a non-P2W object that is just rare.
They do, but they’re also running a PvP game.
In a PvP game, you expect a unit you obtain to perform the same under the same circumstances used the exact same way by any player. The only difference in outcome should come down to player skill, teamwork and strategy.
It’s OK for there to be a premium roster. Even E-sports games do that (AOE2:DE with its DLC factions). It’s OK for there to be pay-to-progress (for unlocking NEW units to add to your roster) albeit in a reasonable manner (don’t do the thing LoL does where you release a new unit way over-tuned and OP then nerf it down a week or two later - letting those who bought it dominate and abuse it).
Hell, I’d even be cool with there being a pure DLC approach - you need to pay to unlock aircraft above Rank N (one time fee, reasonable) or to unlock more than X nations (you get 3 nations of any order, unlocking the rest costs a one time fee).
But the fact that the same plane can do 5.5G indefinitely while the other passes out after about 21 seconds doing the exact same maneuver is frankly absurd.
Exactly. I once played an event while I was on a resort island. The difference in internet was the biggest p2w I ever had. I never before aimed at the “kill 12 in a battle” challenge. There I routinely got it in the fist 1-2 missions. And I played on a 6 year old notebook. Rest assured, back home I checked, but it wasn’t the notebook. :-(
After this experience, I realized that no crew skill in the world can compensate for those netcode effects. If I wanted true p2w, I should have moved to that island. Would have been the first WT investment my wife would have readily approved…
What shall I say? After the experience above, I no longer do.
It is the crew that passes out… And that difference is absolutely realistic, as it isn’t the same crew.
Don’t get me wrong, it would be OK for me if crew skill could not be bought.
So you come on here calling everybody who dares to disagree with your view point a liar? That is odious. People are right to pull you up there ,it was a hope that people like you were in short supply on this forum guess not.You can express an opinion but you don’t need to be so juvenile especially when you offer no counter argument.
If you could pay for zero downtiers that would be a thing that would give you a huge advantage in every game and take up a huge amount of slack from being a poor player.
Nothing like that exists in War Thunder.I can tell you as somebody who purchased every trick there is that my stats would tell the story.
The likes up you love to stat shame so as the fully confessed “Pay to win” player look at my stats and point out the evidence of my huge advantage.If the like of you couldn’t scream P2W at every corner then you would be crying Russian bias or Chinese cheat or whatever you people have to do to justify the fact that you still cant get a handle on this game after playing so many times.
You cant define P2W so why even use the term? There is no accepted definition across the board other than it’s literal meaning which you pay and you win.If P2W is not that then the phenomena does not exits, period.
Unlucky bud ,most of last few posts on here are stating how I have left the game n disgust and you can see how many games I have played lately.
I would have loved the money I spent to equate in terms of success.
That was never the case.
Practice over time,Map knowledge ,huge luck and the mighty down tier is what cause my good games when I have them.The right vehicle on the right map with probably a poor opposition overall. Camo is as old as war itself and as for the other perks ,F2P veterans will have most of them so do you want those guys to lose everything as well?
If you can’t take what this game is about then leave.I have.
I’d consider pay to win as being able to but an advantage over others.
Crew skills are pay to win because they allow you to buy a direct advantage over other players with the same amount of RP investment.
I consider F2P for a number of years to be the same and at no cost so what now?
In fact we do have people calling for level 100 players to be banned form low tiers ,so that answers itself.Find me true equality in the free game and I might agree with you.