War Thunder is pay to win

Game Discussion General Discussion
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413

No, but Indirectly yes - mainly when your gunner reload time (“maintenance”) is too long and you have to reload at the most inconvenient time.

So imho the most decisive crew XP for defensive armament is the gunner reload time - at least for Air RB.

Having reload times of 10 seconds can decide between life or death. 10 seconds from initial 40 seconds for a level 75 crew in an aced aircraft is a game changer in certain aircraft like in my B-18 B. If you fly with a Hotas and with “auto pilot off in gunner view” you can even roll and fly inverted to use the other turret until the first one has reloaded.

The XP for defensive armament are imho borderline useless as they just shine when it is too late, meaning that your attacker came into his effective gun range. But technically seen they are not really effective.

There is still this hoax that auto gunners would open fire at 0.21 km distance - this is imho flat wrong even as mentioned in the stat card. The “real” value is 0,66 km - and it depends on which way the barrels are pointing at.

So if you attack a B-25 from 12 o’ clock high the barrels of the upper turret are pointing backwards - it take too much time to turn 180° degrees. If you perform a dive attack from 6 o’clock high the barrels show already towards you, so chances to get hit by auto gunners increase significantly and depend on your excess speed. That is also the reason why a hell of bombers with bot scripts had thousands of losses but depending on the plane also hundreds of kills.

The only exception from this rule are the few actually skilled P-61 pilots with level 75 crews and aced planes. They are using the imho way too fast turret rotation and the very effective auto gunner in an offensive role whilst scissoring with enemy fighters. Every few hundred matches you meet on one them. That’s why i always check stat cards before i attack a P-61 :-)

414

If I don’t have a gunner, because all I fly are single seater, then the XP is useless.

415

We should make bushes earn-able like decals. Like 100 kills for 1 bush or something.

416

Bushes are ugly. I like the implementation of the camo net on the leopard2a4 and tiger premiums. But adding bushes looks so ugly. Bad visuals. The vehicles should look authentic. Bushes hovering inf ront of the tank is really ugly

417

I agree, but war was is not a beauty contest. So is warthunder. Winning the game with 9 kills using bushes is far more better than using a Leopard with an ‘authentic’ camo and loosing the battle with 2 kills. It is cool having the leafy nets and all, but that’s not as effective and as available as bushes.

418

For me is different. I want the very best optics for fun. Win or loose is for me not relevant. Recently the release a few very nice, with love crafted premiums. P-16 or Tiger 1 combo. I’ld love to see some other coming. Sadly, not all premiums were crafted to that extend. The Zero has a gap in cockpit and between wingroots. Endless times I reported it, never got fixed

419

If winning or loosing is irrelevant that is your story. The title clearly says “Pay to Win”. People pay for victory, not because they don’t care if they loose or not

420

If every premium would be a grant to win, wouldn’t then be everyone that wants to win, buy one?

I don’t think if you buy a premium, you are going to win all times. Looks at the herds of fujis these days. You won’t win, just because you own a fuji, you aced the crew and because you plan some 500GE bushes upfront. Player skill is still relevant and the team you are getting mixed with.

421

How do you not understand?
What I meant was–in case people like this one are here–that doing the things (planting bushes, acing crews and buying premiums) boosts your chance of winning, and that it becomes unfair for the people that can’t spend money. People that care about authentic things should not buy premium things if they think it is unauthentic.

422

Pay to win does not mean “paying for guaranteed victory.”

It means that through paying money, you acquire an objective mechanical advantage over your peers performing the same actions within reasonable deviation so that when 2 players of equal skill compete, it’s slanted in favour of the individual who paid money in a significant portion of cases.

Example:

Player without expert vs player with expert vs player with aced crew.

Due to max sustained Gs, max excess Gs, in a 1 vs 1 duel the player with expert and especially the player with ace crews will be able to perform and sustain maneuvers in the exact same plane that the player with a less trained crew cannot match no matter what they do.

Rather notably, I found this issue to come up a lot when performing defensive flying (rolling/flat scissors at high speeds to force an overshoot) - in planes with expert crews I can do it at higher speeds which allows me to exploit better high speed maneuverability and control to get behind my enemy. Also notably, lacking the expert crew status your plane will stop mid-roll and start flying straight.

You don’t even need a lot of Gs for it to happen. If your scissors sits around 5.5/6.0 G or so, due to the duration of pulls and rapid rolls adding up the multiple maneuvers involved, it will kick in reliably. Why 5.5/6.0 G? That’s where expert and ace crews make the difference.

Can you still win without an expert crew? Sure.
But you’re winning despite passing out when you wouldn’t have and flew straight for an extended period of time while being shot at.
Winning in such conditions usually means your opponent was in an inferior plane or were less experienced as a player.

Another case I found it come up a lot is during the initial turn of a high-speed merge (you’re flying comparable altitude, you dive down from a distance to gain speed for faster instantenous turn and hard-pull onto your opponent’s six. Doable “easily” (enemy compliance notwithstanding) in an experted ki-100 with high level crews, you blackout in a non-expert low level ki-100. Given we sacrifice a lot of energy for the tiny edge of turning a tiny bit faster, passing out and flying straight rather than getting our snapshot or position is going to have consequences.

Can you still win? Sure.
Enemy has an inferior plane, made a mistake or are simply too inexperienced to punish your vulnerability.

Note the still wins never including “enemy of same skill in mirror/same plane.”

423

Crew skills are rigged.

It’s 3% of your mod RP converted to crew skills in AB and only 1% in SB/RB, yet the RP rates are not normalized between modes. AB levels so much faster it’s a joke.

The original excuse was “multiple lives in AB air so need more crew skill points for divide” but this is irrelevant since ground exist for 10 years for rb/sb and EC.

424

So its 3% more efficient to grind crew levels and points in Arcade? Does it matter what BR vehicles you use?

425

No, it is 300% more efficient.

Aside from RP % modifier, no.

1 Like
426

Ok, ill grind arcade battles 😂

1 Like
427

But everything else you get are worse. Realistic is good for grinding tanks since you can try flanking and also since you get like (I think) 50% more RP. I don’t know for sure, but that’s what I think since grinding RB was faster for me than AB.

428

image

Playtime is seconds alive x coefficient x activity% x economic modifier

all values are for 100% modifier vehicle.

2 Likes
429

Of course it’s pay to win from the beginning, paid units have higher hit points, better defense, better fire power and everything. A single 2s38 driver stopped a cannon shell with 600 penetration shot from the rear and survived, nothing else was damaged, only in this money grabbing game. Paid jets has better chance to doge missiles, and their missiles can’t be lured by countermesures, it’s very hard for non paid jets to counter them. Nerf the old jets to unplayable level, this money grabbing practice is so disgusting. Don’t spend a single penny, it’s easier to delete this game anytime you want to quit.

430

Literally none of that is limited to paid items.

431

So “pay to win” actually means "pay to sometimes win, sometimes lose"🤣

432

Yes.

People consider certain skins in Dota2/LoL pay to win due to altering the glance value of the hero, thus giving a competetive advantage.