War Thunder is pay to win

Game Discussion General Discussion
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324

It looks like your reading comprehension is on par with your pilot skills.

Your conclusion for the fact that noobs are polluting the game and are ruining subsequently the game play for more experienced players is that anybody who wants to have fun whilst playing an online game (if fun is determined by having fun and a challenge and not playing like headless chicken) is to play single player.

Lmao.

Lowering standards because the majority or certain minority groups can’t meet them is one of the reasons why societies will collapse. If you think you argument through your next surgery can be performed by a car mechanic because he has fun doing surgeries - and his dad was able to pay the fee to get him the job. Have fun.

Instead of producing one nonsense post after another (which is your right) you might consider to invest your energy in learning how to play and some additional time in grammar.

2 Likes
325

In-game purchases are fine. “DLCs/Expansion packs” are fine. In Warthunder, DLC/Expansion packs manifest in form of premium vehicles and cosmetics. Warthunder also has a very okay and justifiable premium system for faster unlock of base-game vehicles.

Making it so if you take the exact same vehicle, with the exact same modifications, at the exact same altitude, at the exact same initial speed, with variations in control input within tolerance for un-scripted inputs…

Why does aircraft A (expert, max G/stamina) sustain 5.5G for over 35 seconds (potentially more if we didn’t run out of ground), yet the same aircraft in a different crew slow that is lvl 2 G/stamina and no expert pass out after 21 seconds of 5.5G turn?

This is NOT okay. In a respectable PvP game, Unit A should always behave as Unit A regardless of who is using it provided they input the same inputs in the same initial condition.

Imagine if in League of Legends, you could influence your heroes’ ability cooldown and damage and regen with features you need to grind for ~60 hours per hero archetype or pay a bunch of money.
Oh wait, League had such a mechanic (Rune Pages). It was blasted as pay to win and been a point of ridicule and superiority for Dota2. Riot finally realized the problems with such and removed rune pages. Now, you get all runes at game start, and paying only gives you more slots to design pre-sets for convenience (rather than faffing about each match to get your perfect rune setup). F2P gets some free slots at level 10.

Spoiler

Why 5.5G? It was the sustained G I could most consistently replicate in the F4U-4 on the Denmark test flight map using a descending spiral.

It’s even more NOT okay that render distance is tied to this absurd system. In my F4U-4 in sim, I can somehow see much further and have better preripherial vision than in my Spitfire MkIX/Bf10F4/I185. How?

In air sim, the skill expression manifests partly in the hunting for enemies and spotting and tracking them and also evading detection by knowing contrail altitudes, terrain and abusing clouds and the sun (using the sun versus bf109s is evil, their frontal glasspane pretty much becomes washed out at the right angle. )

And while arguably, this is just like unlocking vehicles (pay to progress), the Time-to-Progress and the expected level of progression throws a wrench into the works.

Using ASB’s useful actions because it’s consistent and capped - you can get ~2200 RP per 15 minutes in a typical BR 4.0 vehicle, or 4400 with premium. To get level 5 G/Stamina, you need 2x2571=5142 skill points. You get 1 skill point per 100 RP, so 5142 requires 514 200 RP. This requires, from scratch, 514K/2.2Kx15/60 (/2 if premium)= 58/29 hours depending on premium (it’s more than my previous rounded to 5K calculations, yes). Realistically, you’ll get ~900 crew XP by the time of a BR 4.0 plane so that comes out roughly at lvl 2 G/Stamina, you only got ~4.1k to obtain, you’ve barely made 1/4 of the progress to 5/5.

And you need a level 10 crew to expert it, meaning you need to max out G/stamina or spread your skills around and delay maxing out G/stamina. Expert alone gives you +0.5 G sustained, maxing gives you 0.9, and stamina works less plainly than G-tolerance (I’m yet to find a test that precisely replicates the stat card values. I imagine the complication is in when it starts counting down and how quickly it counts down.)

So, even with premium time it’s absurdly long. With premium, it’s 29 hours from scratch for each nation and crew slot you fly assuming you always get at least 600-800 score each UA cycle, RTB to land and never get killed.

2 Likes
326

m1a1 HC and the click bait are the same tank the hc gets a dozer the clickbait doesnt

327

DLC/Expansion pack having a similar vehicle as base game but with different abilities is not an issue.

Western Lords DLC for AOE2:DE has nations that can employ the generic units with different potentials to say, base game japan. This is fine.

What is not fine is the fact that I can grab my F4U-4, put it in crew slot 1 or 2, slap expert on it and camp 5.5G indefinitely, then I put the F4U-4 on crew slot 5 to imitate being a new-ish player (or someone starting america and just unlocked F4U-4) and pass out after 21 seconds of descending spiral at 5.5G (this slot is lvl 2 G/stamina).

In AOE2:DE, if you pick japan you expect japan to have the same strengths/weaknesses whether you own Western Lords or not.

328

Its free to play game, anyone can play it however they want it no matter the expiriance, there is no rule broken if noob buys top tire premium and sucks in it… I gave you advice on how to solve your problem if you dont want to play with random noobs and you somehow got insulted.
Standard of the gameplay in free to play online multiplayer videogame?

You comparing this to playing free to play online video game LMAO…

1 Like
329

Puh, a lot to unpack - my last answer to you:

Any serious conversation requires the willingness to understand the other side. This requires also the necessity to read what others wrote - just in order to come to the right conclusion.

  • Discussions are not there to “win” an exchange of words, the main goal is to reflect own positions by trying to understand underlying motivations of others with deviating opinions.

  • Often the most important things are not expressed in words, so the key to understand others is also to think about what was not said.

  • So listening (or in this case reading) of deviating opinions shows not only respect, it is also the minimum requirement for any exchange.

  • Any fruitful discussion produces a mutual benefit by seeing topics from different perspectives. This reflection might result in a change of opinions - or not, it actually doesn’t matter.

So to make this clear:

  • If i would like to have an advise - i would have asked.
  • If i would have a problem with the game - i would not play it.
  • If i see completely irrational posts in a public forum and i am somehow affected - i reply to them.

I mean, no offense, but with replies to others on this level you show simply that you are either not willing or not capable to acknowledge deviating positions.

This is actually irrelevant for this forum, but you will face serious issues irl if you don’t understand that listening to others and trying to investigate their real motivations is the key to get along with others, no matter in business or private issues.

There is zero benefit of posting something like that:

…when the person you are replying to has stated this 2 posts earlier:

And something like that:

…shows that you have severe issues to understand the basic principle of examples; sometimes you have to use exaggerated examples to point out logical flaws.

Plz just read it and think about it.

Have a good one!

1 Like
330

you just write bunch of nonsenses so I wont even bother to replay…
But I will leave you with advice:

  • play with friends if you have them or squad mates and stop complaining about random players.

Hope you calm down and also have a good one.

332

I don’t consider WT to be P2W, but it’s a game with heavy P2P elements for sure.
Crew skills are probably the strongest example, as level 0 crew is much, much worse than Aced one and you can skip all that grind by just paying up.

1 Like
333

This whole comment is misrepresenting what basically everyone is saying.

334

This is nonsense. Paying for player power is P2W.

Just because it’s theoretically possible to attain that power by grinding for 6 months doesn’t mean it’s not P2W.

P2P is non-power related, like just getting new vehicles faster.

335

That is still only a heavy amount of P2P.
Something is P2W if you have no way of getting something related to gameplay without paying, no matter how hard you try.

Crew skills should be reworked to reduce the difference between 0 and Aced though.

336

I guess you have an exotic definition of “everyone” too.

While that is surely p2w, the problem is, how high may the basket be hung?

337

Why do you think that “p2w” means the thing you pay for is not attainable another way?

Imagine there is a Lion I can buy that will one-shot any character in some game. I can get it by playing, it’ll take a year or two of grinding, it’s a difficult to acquire endgame item. But I can get it today, for $999.99, and kill everyone in the game. Is this p2w? I can get it /eventually/. Of course it is. It’s also an extreme and unrealistic example, but the principle is the same. Being able to pay to make your performance better in any dimension without earning it through gameplay is p2w.

This is just fanboy cope nonsense that people say to allow them to believe that their favourite game isn’t p2w. In discussions on this topic for every single f2p game you have people applying these same caveats to try to argue the game isn’t p2w. It’s so dishonest.

But in any event, the OP premium vehicles still exist. Ka-50? Yeah. Just because they nerf it a year after they sell it to everyone doesn’t mean it wasn’t p2w.

338

That is your way of saying: don’t expect a meaningful discussion with me. Accepted, have a good day then.

1 Like
339

That’s just what a fanboy would say.

344

Just right off, the fact he spawned 11 vehicles in very clearly shows he was anything but unstoppable. It sounds like he got pounded.

Also, backups are so not P2W. I’m not pay to win and I have hundreds of backups just from the war bond shop. Pretty sure I have 283 at the moment. I had 300 something at one point but then I stopped buying them for a little while.

Being able to spawn more vehicles doesn’t make you better, it just means you are getting destroyed a whole lot more.

Crew skills I would say can be P2W, but if you play and just remember to upgrade crew skills it doesn’t matter much.

While bushes are extremely annoying they did add physics to them so you can just knock them off. Bushed tanks being effective is more due to lack of team coordination than anything else. For instance if you and three players are driving out in a field and suddenly one of you blows up the other two should look around to see where it came from. 9 times out of 10 the other two players just keep driving and get destroyed too which is a clear sign of of no team play, but this is Warthunder, so that is kind of expected. Bushes are powerful when used properly but they are easily countered by a little bit of team intelligence.

To be clear I absolutely hate bushes but they aren’t going to be removed regardless. The best option would be to squad with competent players and then just keep an eye on any tree lines and bushes.

345

Because that’s what it is ?
Your example is also a P2P one, but just an extreme one which will make people object.

No one is coping, it’s just most people aren’t dooming over everything.

346

Why do you think that is what P2W and P2P mean? Is it because you absorbed those definitions from hopeless fanboys trying desperately to believe their favourite game isn’t P2W?

Who’s dooming? I personally don’t really care at all. I have quite a few of the vehicles I’d consider P2W, because they’re more effective and make grinding easier and a little more fun. But I’m not trying to pretend I didn’t pay to get a higher win rate. :)

I mean, I P2W’d most of the way through the brit tech tree with the Sea Vixen. It’s crazy how effective that thing is.

347

I think the main thing he means is that you can either buy or grind all features in the game. Some things take forever to grind though. So if we’re being picky it is pay to progress. If we are just getting a point across, it is pay to win. It’s all perspective really.

That being said, some vehicles do strike me as pay to win.

348

Why wouldn’t I think that ?

I personally don’t care that much either, I have a lot of experience playing the game and my crews are pretty good. I also don’t think we have P2W premiums.