War Thunder is pay to win

[RunaDacino]

@EddieVanHalo

I would be interested to know what paying gives you

Plane A, ace crew:
Can sustain ~6.2G/6.9G (with suit) without a hint of passing out. Maintain full situational awareness. Able to exceed 7G for unrealistic maneuvers at absurd speeds with a time limit.

Time to acquire an ace crew playing purely ASB,
Bf109F4 useful actions come out at ~1800 per 15 minutes, 470 for landing for a 86% reward cycle
So, 2270 per 15 minutes.

Exceeding 92% reward is practically impossible. At 1050 score, you get 92% reward indicated on statcard. At 1950, you get 93.15. Score is calculated every 15 minutes.

Flying the Bf109F4 and only that requires 500K RP to reach maximum G/stam. 500K RP takes, let’s round up to 2300… 54 hours of flying ( 500,000 / 2300 * 15 / 60 = 54 ). You need, on top of this, 280K to get ace crew.

280,000 / 2300 * 15 / 60 = ~30 hours (calulation less exact as it depends on when you buy expert mode). This is not considering that you need a level 35 crew to get ace and my 5/5/5/5 keen/aware/G/stamina naval fighter crew is only 31.5.

A base level crew can sustain 4.5Gs.
This is the consequence of flying a plane with 4.8 max G tolerance:

you black out from doing a dive and pulling up after your target.

Meanwhile with my maxed crew, I could accelerate to 720 km/h, yank the stick back and pivot in place 180 degrees and barely start blacking out.

Beyond a difference of 1.7Gs for no G-suit, you also get Keen vision and awareness.

Did you know, that in a game mode without markers and purely visual spotting you’d think was determined only by player skill… Keen vision/Awareness make a difference? Crew skills can literally make a plane you’re looking at phase out of existence because you don’t have an aced crew.

Extend Vehicle Render Distance Limit in Air Sim [EC]

poll With every update, more and more aircraft with advanced technologies come into the game. These technologies include modern targeting systems that are used to find, identify and track enemy vehicles. At least in real life. In the game, their usefulness is limited by one single game mechanic - spotting. You can only see enemy planes that are about 10-15 kilometers away from you or closer, or are spotted by your teammates (which in some cases doesn’t even work). Now, in other gamemodes that w…

Alternative to all these handicaps, you can pay money and start doing 7G+ maneuvers without even seeing vignettes immediately.

[TheArcticFoxxo]

@RunaDacino

Given the rather absurd time to progress, especially to ace crews, it is pay to win.

Ace crews take little more than 100-120 matches to achieve. I’ve aced 4 vehicles on RP alone, and could possibly have more if i had more expert crews.

[TheArcticFoxxo]

@山_田_凉

You cannot get more than 5 crew slots in any other way than paying GE. Or maybe getting 10 referrals, but that only gives one anyways.

Or selling something on the market… You can get a 6th crew slot for every single nation just by playing in 1 builder event.

Hell, I have every nation’s crew slots maxed out except for Japan and Israel because of those events.

[MertisWee]

This gonna be deleted sooner or later when gained traction, for some “rule breaking” thing lol

[Zahltag]

sorry but you get so many back ups from warbonds alone that they really aren’t p2w

[Jozef_Mrkvička]

>Play free to play game
>It has borderline pay to win mechanics

Imagine the shock

@山_田_凉

Additional crew slots give the most important advantage in Ground Realistic

Half of my team always leave after first death. It might be advantage but players are not using it anyway. You rarely see someone with more than 3 deaths in game. Not to mention when you play properly game is pretty much decided after you respawn 3 times.

@山_田_凉

Backups… However, the amount available to a F2P player is limited and needs to be carefully rationed to last

Not true, like you said you can get them in Warbond shop. Sure if you have just one vehicle in your lineup you can burn through them very quickly.

@山_田_凉

crew skills affect tens of important parameters of vehicle’s performance!

Like that 0.45 seconds faster repload speed on M46?
How many times have you died just because your oponent had better crew level?

@山_田_凉

Bushes are one of the most complained about aspects of War Thunder, and with good reason.

Most of it is just coping. Like this post.

@山_田_凉

These features do not belong in War Thunder.

Its free to play game so yes they do.

@Zahltag

sorry but you get so many back ups from warbonds alone that they really aren’t p2w

Exactly, I have like 100 backups on various vehicles I like and never bought any for GE. They are super easy to get if you are active player.

[RunaDacino]

@Vianočka

Like that 0.45 seconds faster repload speed on M46?
How many times have you died just because your oponent had better crew level?

Ace crew gives you 1.7 higher G tolerance AND not quantified stamina advantage.

Take a Bf109F4.

Ace crew.

Accelerate to 450 km/h and make a split S as you would when BnZing a person below you.

Now, same plane but base crew.

Repeat the same maneuver. You literally start blacking out as you level out due to 4.5 max sustained G.

And dota 2 is a f2p game without any p2w mechanics

Oh, and your render distance is dictated by crew skills as well.

[Jozef_Mrkvička]

I have like 2 airplanes with aced crew and that is just because I was playing them a lot. Never bought ace crew. Never cared about acing it just to get some G tolerance advantage…

@RunaDacino

And dota 2 is a f2p game without any p2w mechanics

>Using Valve game as argument

[Saitama_420]

If game is Pay2Win why are all premiums literally worst vehicles in the game???

[山_田_凉]

@БЕИ

The funny thing is the players themselves who set the price? irony how players complaining about ridiculous high price of premium items, then when they get the chance to call the shot: “I’ll sell this $2000 haha it’s called Supply and Demand bro!”

See the hypocrisy?

This type of thinking demonstrates a rather surface-level analysis of War Thunder. Yes, it is the players which set the prices on the Market. But you cannot turn a blind eye to the pressures imposed by Gaijin as well. Such as the extreme difficulty of obtaining an event vehicle and the coupon in the first place, or the fact that Gaijin takes a 15% cut from each marketplace transaction. In essence, you can’t solely blame the individuals rather than the system.
Another one of your mistakes is assuming the “players” are a singular entity with the same responsibility for their thoughts and actions. The amount of players boosting the prices on the market is a minority compared to the number of players complaining about the high market prices. And often they are different people.

[Creastroy]

This will lead to:

Grind event, sell on market place, trade with the GJN, progress to have infinite GJN and buy everything

Which means:

If I add a market place on any P2W game, they are never P2W anymore, regardless how expensive things are they are just hard to progress

fr?

[БЕИ]

@山_田_凉

The amount of players boosting the prices on the market is a minority compared to the number of players complaining about the high market prices. And often they are different people.

The good thing is most of the premium stuff is optional, I actually spent nearly one year not spending any money by playing what I already researched, I can continue to do this until the end of time and gaijing will not gain any more money from someone like me, but recently I just got bored and wanted to try out more toys, hence I decided to buy premium time so I can unlock them toys faster, I could have just done them slowly without spending a cent but I refused to offer my precious time, in return I trade my time with money for it, its a f2p game, you get to play for free, and in return they asked for your time so they could have you being “there” to be the filler so players could find another player to play in the shortest loading time possible. It’s just business, they also give you the option to skip certain parts of things you don’t like, like not investing your time and energy by paying.

[Dodo_Dud]

@KingCobra99

IMO The game has become trash! …the game play is just horrible

But you still play 370 battles in a week? What can I say…

[Dodo_Dud]

The biggest “pay to win” stuff you can get is:

• a suitable controller setup
• a 4k display

Those are imho the most pronounced p2w options you have.

[Caernarvon02]

Stockholm syndrome is strong in WT

[Ion_492]

Depends on the vehicle.

I have 700 matches since I expected my XM-1, but I still don’t have an ace crew. They aren’t quick to get for premiums because they have double the RP cost, and they aren’t quick to get for TT vehicles if you don’t have premium.

[UniqueScorpions-live]

@ZendikarHaven

@UniqueScorpions

I’m just saying, it’s an advantage.
Just like certain sound mods,
And certain sight mods.

So is having a better PC, or better ping. ULQ is absolutely necessary for low-end stuff, especially stuff without a graphics card, and sound/sight mods are generally fine, with only a small minority of players abusing them.

A “small minority” Id wager is closer to 8-10%
And my XSX in most cases runs better than a lot of people pc’s I know.
I have my own high end pc and can game on it, but I am much more of a controller enjoyer / Xbox enjoyer. Not to mention cross progression doesn’t save I’m pretty sure.

@ZendikarHaven

@UniqueScorpions

I’m just saying, it’s an advantage.
Just like certain sound mods,
And certain sight mods.

As for console… to be honest, y’all are always going to get shafted. Consoles are inherently less… open then PCs, and until that changes, you are going to be at a deficit. I really dont think this is something that should mean sound mods should be banned - its just an inherent, unfortunate disadvantage of consoles, similar to how PCs also have far more keys.

That’s like saying, oh on console we should still be able to get GE wagers since we cannot access the gaijin market. (Which would be distinct advantage for us). If it was never a thing before, gaijin wouldn’t have added all the mods. They might have kept it fair. They’re at least doing sight tools for those of us on console now, and have done some sound settings. But I know I’ve definitely seen plenty of people (and it only gets worse the higher you go in br) using some questionable: mods, and or cheats.
Like top tier is where a lot of cheaters sit.
But anything last say 5.7 there’s maybe a sound mod abuser here and there, with it becoming apparent when people are using them. Watching some game replays, some people will be far away / can’t hear over the sounds of combat, and turn and snap onto myself or others with having no previous knowledge we were there. As if they heard us far in the distance. It’s not as bad as the aimbot problem.

But these problems still make the game hell to play. (Oh and on a side note… I hate the turret wigglers that mess up their shot, then try to move like they’re playing fortnite so they don’t die).

[EddieVanHalo-live]

@RunaDacino

Plane A, ace crew:
Can sustain ~6.2G/6.9G (with suit) without a hint of passing out. Maintain full situational awareness. Able to exceed 7G for unrealistic maneuvers at absurd speeds with a time limit.

Time to acquire an ace crew playing purely ASB,
Bf109F4 useful actions come out at ~1800 per 15 minutes, 470 for landing for a 86% reward cycle
So, 2270 per 15 minutes.

Exceeding 92% reward is practically impossible. At 1050 score, you get 92% reward indicated on statcard. At 1950, you get 93.15. Score is calculated every 15 minutes.

Flying the Bf109F4 and only that requires 500K RP to reach maximum G/stam. 500K RP takes, let’s round up to 2300… 54 hours of flying ( 500,000 / 2300 * 15 / 60 = 54 ). You need, on top of this, 280K to get ace crew.

280,000 / 2300 * 15 / 60 = ~30 hours (calulation less exact as it depends on when you buy expert mode). This is not considering that you need a level 35 crew to get ace and my 5/5/5/5 keen/aware/G/stamina naval fighter crew is only 31.5.

A base level crew can sustain 4.5Gs.
This is the consequence of flying a plane with 4.8 max G tolerance:

you black out from doing a dive and pulling up after your target.

https://forum-en-cdn.warthunder.com/original/3X/3/a/3a7eaf66552c4b50b8786c0e2adf30b9ee07e839.mp4

This video cannot be rendered because your browser does not support the codec.

Meanwhile with my maxed crew, I could accelerate to 720 km/h, yank the stick back and pivot in place 180 degrees and barely start blacking out.

Beyond a difference of 1.7Gs for no G-suit, you also get Keen vision and awareness.

Did you know, that in a game mode without markers and purely visual spotting you’d think was determined only by player skill… Keen vision/Awareness make a difference? Crew skills can literally make a plane you’re looking at phase out of existence because you don’t have an aced crew.

I only really play GRB .I am sure if I did play ARB or SIM on a regular basis then focusing all my points on the G suit issue would not be hard.I would state again that new F2P players face other F2P players who have ten or more years experience so where is the fairness then? All paying players are doing in that scenario is playing catchup .

I would suggest that any player who has reached high level in War Thunder without paying is the true winner not some fool who lavished a fortune on some virtual reality that could be removed at any time.When Gaijin calls it quits your “Investment” becomes wasted money.

PS ,they don’t even have to stop the game ,just do to you what they did to me and make the game so unattractive that I no longer have an interest in it.

[UrMumSaysHi]

Pay to win? No
Pay to progress? Oh yes

[frogofwar]

at least 50% of the replies to this are going to be:

“it’s not pay to win, it’s pay to /similar term/, because of this very flimsy reason”

The fundamental fact that you can exchange money for player power is the definition of P2W, regardless of whether you can achieve those things through time or not.