Urgent need to increase B.R (5.3 to 5.7) for the F4U-4 in simulator mode

[FeetPics]

@z_galocegoz

About the BF109 K-4 and the advantage of the climb rate. In these graphs, are you considering the climb rate levels and plane performance with conventional armament (2x 13mm MG131 + 1x 20mm MG151), or are you considering it with additional armament (+2x MG151 20mm)? Adding the extra cannons to the plane results in:

The Bf.109 K-4 with gun pods still outclimbs the F4U-4 by a significant margin. The Bf.109 K-4 with gun pods will reach 5600m in the same time that it takes the non-gun pod K-4 to reach 6000m. A minimum fuel F4U-4 reaches 5000m in the same time frame and it has to burn up around 40% of it’s ADI fluid to get that.

@z_galocegoz

1.1 - An additional 200kg of mass (equivalent to at least 2 more pilots on board).

1.2 - A 10.8km/h reduction in maximum speed.

1.3 - A loss of 2.1m/s in climb rate.

1.4 - A decrease in turn rate performance, with an increase of 1.3 seconds in total time.

You are quoting stat cards. They are effectively meaningless.
Without gun pods any late Bf.109 variant can out climb and out turn the F4U-4.
With gun pods the turn rates become roughly competitive with the Bf.109s maintaining better power to weight ratios.

@z_galocegoz

This is just the technical data; I haven’t even touched on gameplay, which leads to a significant deterioration in dogfight combat or evasive maneuvers. Especially at sea level, where the F4U-4 can perform equally or better than the BF109 (according to the numbers shown). Even if you argue that the secondary weapons are intended for bombing, I’ll address the issue of cannons and ammunition below.

It does not perform better. Like most American planes the F4U-4 has a high top speed but only mediocre acceleration. It does not even begin to pull away from the Bf.109 K-4 at sea level until it reaches 570kph on the deck. And due to the fact that the Bf.109s have variable speed superchargers this difference will be even more noticeable at altitudes between 1000m - 3000m. The only place that the F4U-4 is faster than the Bf.109 K-4 is below 1000m and above 7000m; at every other altitude it is slower than the K-4.

@z_galocegoz

2.1 - 2 1000lb bombs (or ~640 kilograms of TNT), enough to destroy AA bases and cause significant damage to airfields and coastal fleets.

2.2 - A set of 8x 100 lb bombs + 2 500lb bombs, which can take out enemy ground units effectively, in addition to the effective machine guns.

Ground pounding is mostly irrelevant to Air EC; especially with AA being as powerful as it currently is. An F4U-4 that is loaded for ground pounding is an easy target for any Bf.109 variant.

@z_galocegoz

3.2 - Poor accuracy when compared to the M2, and relative damage for the MG151 and MG131. This is a serious problem and widely discussed in some threads. In addition, the ammunition belts for the cannons are quite limited in terms of ammo types. For example, there’s the “Air Targets” and “Stealth” options that are very similar. Or “Default” and “Tracer” options, which are also quite similar. But I want to “highlight” tracer rounds, which often do minimal damage, almost like firing HE ammo in a tank battle.

4. Offensive armament.

4.1 - F4U4 with 6x M2 against 2x 13mm and 1x 20mm of the BF109.

MG.151s trade velocity for higher damage out-put. They are not less accurate than other guns but they have a lower velocity which limits their reach. At the same time .50 cals have higher velocity but they do not have the same damage output.

MG.151s work perfectly fine for deflection shots with shorter windows of opportunity that .50 cals simply do not offer.

@z_galocegoz

So, my perspective is this: we have two aircraft that could easily face each other and the more skilled pilot would win, but one of them is at 5.3 and the other at 5.7. The F4U-4 is not only a tough opponent for the BF109 but also an excellent aircraft for ground attacks.

The problem in these forums is that some people take it personally. Some will say, “when I’m in the BF109, I can shoot down any player in the F4U-4, and when I’m in the F4U-4, I can shoot down anyone in the BF109.”

The point here, as I explained at the beginning, is to bring the data and analyze it to see if the F4U-4 isn’t a superior aircraft to many in its BR. I consider battles in BR 4.3-5.3. I’m not saying you have to play with a 4.3 aircraft in a 4.3-5.3 BR, but if you take into account all the qualities of the F4U-4 and its gameplay, it would be reasonable to move it to 5.7, as it will sometimes face 4.7-5.7.

I’m not asking you to agree with me; I’m presenting my point of view.

You have never even played the F4U-4. In fact you have basically not even touched the US side of the tech tree in SB. This is why you get so much basic information wrong.

The only thing that makes the F4U-4 reasonably decent is the fact that it can sustain a reasonable turn rate for longer than previous F4U-4 variants so it can punish Bf.109 pilots when they get sloppy and decide to just pin their stick in a single direction.

It is not a 5.7 plane. It is not faster than the 5.0 Bf.109s. It is not faster than the 5.0 Ki-84 that it always faces. It does not turn better than a 109. It does not climb better either.

And before you actually complain that I am somehow biased because I play US planes…I also play German planes quite frequently and have been doing so for quite some time.

Contesting The Point

[TOMSONE]

Thx to waste your time, for players who complain/judge vehicules without playing it.
And all the game should turn on there POV, based on nothing.

It’s a very long fight, they are numerous!

I don’t get this this force/time anymore.

Give this man a medal!

May the force be with you.

[z_galocegoz-psn]

Correct feetpics, I may not have the skills to expose the problem with the F4U-4, as I don’t really play with it or any other Allied aircraft, and I am a relatively inexperienced player in simulation battles compared to other players. However, I have been observing this additional difficulty in engaging in fights against the F4U-4, and this problem is not restricted to me alone, I always see other comments about the F4U-4.

But I actually come here, not to expose my gameplay, because that could be very relevant. Many things could be wrong if I were basing this post on my play. However, in addition to the discomfort that the F4U-4 causes for players other than me, I come here to try to expose the technical and gameplay data, precisely from players who have the right to talk about the plane in question. That’s why I think it’s valid, you came here and brought any information that could help clarify this issue with the F4U-4, in no way am I bothered by this, in fact I thank you for taking the time and bringing cool things to add to the discussion.

As I mentioned, my intention here is to be able to help and read other players’ opinions. Sometimes, we can jump to conclusions, but what brought me here was not just my experience, but the recurring comments about the F4U-4 and also the low capacity of the MG151, anyway, it’s a shame my post doesn’t have as many visibility, as discussion is healthy and beneficial for the game in general. I would like more people to bring technical and even gameplay data to this discussion.

I just found it unnecessary to bring the gameplay, as it is something very relative, there are matches and matches, I believe that it is not always possible to carry out a defense as efficient as the one shown in the video, and it also does not increase any technical parameters. It would be much more interesting to put 2 players of the same level in the same conditions and make them give their opinions.
In any case, feel free to bring your gameplay, it’s always good to see experienced players in action, and in a way, we can even compare our mistakes in light of that.

But anyway, I hope more people can give their opinion here. In the meantime, I’m going to try to start playing with the US team. Have a nice day.

[FlyingDoctor]

Damn I like your information on those graphs, where you get that?

[zepirulitotiBR]

Most issues are specifically on the f4u4b, bcz of the union of open cockpit, maneuverability, and precise and powerful cannons, which leaves you very vulnerable even when b&z and high yoyos with great energy as he can snipe you very easily( and, you guessed it, you can’t hit him because he hears you)

[FeetPics]

@z_galocegoz

Correct feetpics, I may not have the skills to expose the problem with the F4U-4, as I don’t really play with it or any other Allied aircraft, and I am a relatively inexperienced player in simulation battles compared to other players. However, I have been observing this additional difficulty in engaging in fights against the F4U-4, and this problem is not restricted to me alone, I always see other comments about the F4U-4.

The F4U-4 and other American planes are harder to fight for axis players because they are accustomed to US planes that have abysmal climb rates; just doing a lazy upwards ascending turn is basically an automatic win against something like an F4U-1 or P-47 D-22. Also earlier German planes also have a much more obvious advantage in turn rates.

@z_galocegoz

But I actually come here, not to expose my gameplay, because that could be very relevant. Many things could be wrong if I were basing this post on my play. However, in addition to the discomfort that the F4U-4 causes for players other than me, I come here to try to expose the technical and gameplay data, precisely from players who have the right to talk about the plane in question. That’s why I think it’s valid, you came here and brought any information that could help clarify this issue with the F4U-4, in no way am I bothered by this, in fact I thank you for taking the time and bringing cool things to add to the discussion.

The whole point of showing gameplay is to prove the point that I am not arguing about things that are purely theoretical. I do not play one nation or one plane exclusively.

The other point showcases that MG151 does more than adequate damage. It’s a little lacking right now compared to other 20mm cannons since the realshatter buff changes…but that isn’t because Mg.151 damage got reduced…every other 20mm received effectively a massive damage buff.

@z_galocegoz

As I mentioned, my intention here is to be able to help and read other players’ opinions. Sometimes, we can jump to conclusions, but what brought me here was not just my experience, but the recurring comments about the F4U-4 and also the low capacity of the MG151, anyway, it’s a shame my post doesn’t have as many visibility, as discussion is healthy and beneficial for the game in general. I would like more people to bring technical and even gameplay data to this discussion.

Your whole initial post is filled with a bunch of conclusions that you had jumped to; especially regarding the performance of the F4U-4. A dogfight between late model 109G and F4U-4 is basically dead even for Enduring Confrontation purposes and the winner is going to be based on pilot skill and starting position.

This is a much more balanced matchup than Bf.109F-4 vs F4U-1 where even if 109 is in bad position it can pretty easily secure turn rate and energy advantage where only card F4U-1 has to play is ability to dive and run away.

@z_galocegoz

I just found it unnecessary to bring the gameplay, as it is something very relative, there are matches and matches, I believe that it is not always possible to carry out a defense as efficient as the one shown in the video, and it also does not increase any technical parameters. It would be much more interesting to put 2 players of the same level in the same conditions and make them give their opinions.
In any case, feel free to bring your gameplay, it’s always good to see experienced players in action, and in a way, we can even compare our mistakes in light of that.

In a pure 1v1 scenario between experienced players something like the Bf.109 has the ability to abuse it’s power to weight ratio against F4U-4. The only real chance F4U-4 has is by being extremely aggressive and pulling for early shot after the merge.

Most Bf.109 players are not aggressive enough so they give aggressive US players free position to the extent that they can’t just turn out of it or use power to weight ratio. Most common tactic of 109 players is lazy ascending turn which only works if opponent has already bled off their energy.

[Lieutenant_Camel]

There are several 100 types of aircraft in the game. Are you going to endlessly discuss every single plane now?
is this a competition to see who has the greater technical expertise? we are all just players moving pixels from a to b here.

Are there no major construction sites in the game? Basic problems with maps, scenarios, AI units… and much more.

[rafa_br]

Something is wrong. See what happens in the rooms…F4U pilots with +10 kills and few “deaths” in several. Corsairs and XP-50 pilots sweeping everyone VERY easily.

[FeetPics]

The XP-50 has performance that is very similar to the Bf.109 F-4 and shares the same battle rating.

Also players with 10 kills and no deaths are usually working together in a team or they just have a lot of experience.

[FlipAllTheTables]

@IrzDusmani

f4u 4 is a KOREAN WAR plane

It is not. As @Metrallaroja said, the in game F4U-4 is modeled with 1945 settings, from WW2.

[IrzDüşmanı]

Then f4u 4 should be set to 5.7 and the other monster friend should be set to f4u 4b 6.

edit: I am in favor of regulating aircraft such as the fw 190 d13. It can be pulled to 5.7.

[FlipAllTheTables]

The F4U-4B is significantly superior to the F4U-4, with much better performance due to a significantly more powerful engine and superior firepower as well.

There should not be just a 0.3 BR difference between these two aircraft.

[IrzDüşmanı]

:) Even though it is not among the WW2 planes, the rest does not concern me much.

But I know that plane is a UFO.

[FlipAllTheTables]

You have never touched a single US plane according to the statistics on your account.

So unless you have created multiple accounts, you do not have a good idea of how these planes perform.

Keep in mind, making multiple accounts is against Gaijin’s terms of service:

3.4. The User shall not create multiple Accounts.

[El_juez_justo]

You thoroughly refute the cope. If they spent as much effort in improving their flying as they do in generating excuses in the forum, then they would not be succumbing to fighters in battles as frequently.

[IrzDüşmanı]

You have nothing to offer other than reducing the issue to whether you know the game or not.

See, I wasn’t alone in this. Most friends who currently play simulation battles know me.

A gang on the forum is promoting injustice with the support of the management and the game producers.

you know, friends. Keep playing with bombers.

You can only console yourself by destroying the bombers and planes that came into service in 44 years with the superior performance machines of 46 47 48 49 years.

I don’t have any friends. Haha, the important thing is not the friend, look, people call f4u 4b a ufo.

They have exactly the same thought. The same problem applies to d30. Valid within c 10. c10’s br should be at least 4.7, your friend called d30 should be at least 5.7. Frankly, I would not have a problem if the BR 5.7 in the D13 was upgraded from other axis planes.

Those tests you did were also intentional. I can’t see the high speed rotation graph in them. You know, like the BF109 with its tail locked. I can’t see the effects of high speeds on the graphics. Keep playing like Robocop. You can only create perception here. Most of the graphs you put up have no practical meaning. You can also use cheats, though I wouldn’t be surprised. I wouldn’t be surprised if someone who is so passionate about dueling uses cheats.

no problem. f4u 4 entered service in early 1945. Now let’s be enlightened by specifying the months March, April and May.

Yes my friend, you are admitting it with your own language again, this corsair f4u-4 br must be 5.7. Not 5.3. Even though the game focuses on modern vehicles, even if intermediates are released, it should be higher than 5.7.

[El_juez_justo]

🤡 👋🏻

[Lieutenant_Camel]

it’s beginning to get on my nerves. there are so many basic problems in sim mode:

• too few spaces
• bad functions to start battles
• terrible nation lineups
• economy, usefull action
• problems with the AI units
• problems with foresight
  …and more.

so please just stop with this nonsense here.

[IrzDüşmanı]

I don’t like people who talk like they’re neutral.

But there are so many crazy people here that they say g14 and d30 are at the same level. The tests that have been carried out supposedly show no difference between these with their flashy graphics, and they even claim that the performance of these old model planes is better than the new model planes. (He immediately started working while writing a comment to the other friend)

These guys have officially become a gang here. I have struggled a lot with people with this type of character problem.

Even vehicles that create instability in the game can be removed from accessibility. like panther 2.

Look, he started his job again.

He also shamelessly accused him of being a Nazi fan or something. IMMORAL PERSON.

I ask the moderators to give the necessary punishment to this dishonorable person.

If it were up to immoral people like you, F86s wouldn’t cause any problems. Again, about that, he adds, “Since F86 rotates worse at low speeds, BF 109s can easily fight with it” and he also adds graphics below, here you go, there is no error in the game, you don’t know how to play, bla bla bla.

If it were up to our friend, who is a member of the forum gang and has mental problems like this, Leopard 1 Panther D might come across him. Because Leopard 1’s armor is weak and it can be fought easily, he does not see any problems with this.

I say again, the producers are spoiling these.

Although I noticed a new game on Steam (or not ?), I guess they have a new game in the works. If there is a game in which such imbalances are eliminated, the transition can be made. This friend can experience pleasure and orgasm instead of hunting g6s and 14s with d30.

[Lieutenant_Camel]

OK, then I’ll discuss it now too :D

You don’t have to calculate the P-51 D-30 in horsepower but in camelpower. so 30% more over the desert

ok, joking aside :) so Bf 109 G: we have several airworthy Bf 109s here in Germany. an E-4, a G-6, two extremely modified aircraft with Rolls Royce engines and two more with Rolls Royce engines were converted by the Messerschmitt Foundation with Daimler Benz engines. Unfortunately I only have books and links in German.

there is extensive flight experience. Even the G-6 engine is so powerful that it pushed the testers into their seats more than expected. Don’t underestimate your Bf 109

Keep in mind that in War Thunder the aircraft are changed update after update after update. the current aircraft are just a snapshot.

So there is no reason to insult each other here.