just get rid of the uptiers and radar missiles at fking .10.3 I’ve spent all day losing cos the radar dipshits completely destroy our teams, we cant wint. just fucking fix it or I quit
What about learning not to enter their scope?
To use terrain (as those Radars are sensible to ground clutter) and learn how/why to fly?
You seems like a newbie in those BR, and all you need to know is that Missile Gameplay is different depending on technology.
Claiming that you will quit a game because you dislike it, well who cares?
I do…and lots players will when variety disappears…if you play all matches with 0 spread you will get a lot of similar vehicles…particularly whatever vehicle is best…
I would like them to test 0.7 spread…but less than that it would be bad for the FUN.
EDIT:
And the discussion would change from uptiers to complaining much more about some vehicle that is on the wrong BR…in AB it would be boring having everyone on same few vehicles and on RB would be annoying to have some nation have the best vehicle all the time
This is a game not a sport…as this guy says:
Imho you are both not entirely wrong, but you totally overlook the actual reasons for creating “groups” and having up- or downtiers:
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Up- or downtiers support gaijin’s goal to keep their main customers (imho not present in this discussion) attached. Having a mix of stomping or getting stomped keeps the player striving and grinding for higher BRs vehicles in order to increase their own “stomping” potential until they reach the highest BRs - in order to “stomp” the whole time.
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So gaijin has created the illusion that the BR setting policy and the set up of matches from full up- to full downtiers would create game variety and equal chances either to suffer or benefit from this overall design. I say illusion because most players don’t even realize that:
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BR setting policy
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Up- and downtier policy
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Player skill
work together via the MM and good game play can’t be evaluated without considering all of them.
- So a discussion about full up- or downtiers makes no sense if the underlying BRs are not set to create a welcomed challenge in case of a full uptier or a still demanding game in a full downtier - at least for experienced players.
But as the game is tailored for less demanding players (kids looking for a plain vehicle based shooter) the current BR setting on plain average results creates at certain BRs and certain nations op vehicles which are just mildly demanding in full uptiers, but absolute killers in full downtiers.
It doesn’t matter if you have just 4 vehicles one full BR higher - the overall BR setup and the MM decides most of your matches - and certain vehicles require less to zero skill to be successful with them.
Example:
I played in the last weeks some matches in the French VB 10 at 4.0 in Air RB - for the BP challenge. You had almost every time an auto-defeat vs USSR dominated teams - even in 4.3-3.3 matches. Simply because you faced up to 4 standard 4.3 Yak-3s plus 2-3 event Yak-3s at 4.0 and 2-4 I-185s at BR 3.7. Players at this BR range don’t climb, love head-ons and turnfights below 4 km - so it happend quite often that 60-80% of my team (without UK or JP) vanished before i was even at 5 km alt…
The part you are referring to RB has a logical flaw.
In an ideal scenario BRs would be determined based on the technical performance of a vehicle - and not how most players use them. And the BR setting would allow that if 2 experienced players meet each other (in similar vehicles) separated by a full BR that the guy with the lower BR has a realistic fighting chance - this is definitively not the case.
So as written above: BR setting and Up- and Downtiers can’t be evaluated separately. And it plays a role if the guys with a full downtier are experienced or not.
Imho “fun” is highly subjective.
This variety topic is imho just a myth.
Gaijin steers this game to maximize their earnings whilst they steer the players with contradicting goals (and underlying SL/RP gains via certain actions).
Best example is giving 3 times the RP for killing a base vs a player kill. Or the special task(5 BP points) with rank III requirement in Air RB: Kill 20 bases, 30 fighters or 8 bombers.
But technically seen you are correct: Experienced players would stick to the top vehicles (they do this already) whilst the less experienced players allows gaijin to steer their vehicle choices - based on daily, special or BP tasks.
Yes it is. MINE is on a varied game with semi-historical behaviour…not too hardcore but not too fantasy. If you want pure historical or completely balanced then we can’t all be happy. I can see where it is difficult to please everyone…
It is actually FACT. If you use a 0.0 BR spread you will get much less vehicle variety than with a 1-0BR spread.
I can actually understand that there are other effects and that players are “encouraged” to get the tank that kills them…but the variety is still a fact.
TBH…i recall wanting/rushing to get the Jumbo when i was getting murdered by them…just to get remined of a star wars quote…
Now i no longer care…i HONESTLY like the variety…
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Games allow you to play even when you’re full uptiered, gaijin thinks sometimes you’re not allowed to
I’ll make clear that i don’t support the current MM system. In general it’s crap. For many different reasons (let’s start that you don’t balance around player…income with the vehicle , but with the potential of the vehicle).
On the other side, when we don’t grind vehicles and we want quality/competitive gameplay with as much balance as possible, why don’t we play custom battles?
- No rewards so no progress
- Many limitations on custom battles
- Hard to find a custom battle that everyone agrees
- See 1)
My opinion is that peoples expectations are unbalanced and the matchmaker is serviceable. :-P
TL;DR Matchmaker isn’t the problem, their will always be unfair matchups no matter how hard you try and manipulate the gameplay. PVP will always be unpredictable and the outcome of matches will be out of your control at worst, but within influence at best.
Lets follow this idea of ‘no more uptiers’ too it’s logical end.
- Remove BR spread:
If you check the list below as a quick reference you’ll notice that a fairly large disparity will emerge between tanks that are BR 3.7. Is a KV-1 (L-11) a fair fight for Shermans, Chaffees and Cromwells? a Pz.IV and Dicker max can easily pen the KV-1 however the KV-1 is much more of a threat to the Pz.IV. Or, are M24s and Puma’s too fast for the remaining 3.7 tanks to effectively deal with?.
What happens when you need to shift a tank up or down in BR, using the KV-1 (L11) as an example again, can it work effectively at 4.0 is it gets moved up out of 3.7?
List of 3.7 tanks below for reference
Spoiler
- Example: Only BR 3.7 vehicles allowed and our list of tanks is as follows*:
US
– M4 Shermans (various)**
– M24 Chaffee (various)**
– M4A5**
Germany
– Pz. IV (Various)**
– Puma
– Dicker Max
– Wirbelwind
RUSSIA
– KV-1 L11
– KV-2 (Various)**
– SMK
– BT-7A (F-32)
UK
– Cromwell I
– AEC AA
ITALY
– 90/53 M41M
– M42 Contraereo
FRANCE
– ARL-44 (ACL-1)
SWEDEN
– SAV 20.12.48
*Have not accounted for lower tier vehicles used as backups
**Have not re-listed vehicles that appear in multiple tech trees
If we remove the BR spread so that there are no more uptiers, Meta vehicles at the same BR will eventually come to dominate the matchmaker and we’ll end up with the same problem of some vehicles being hyper competitive and others being useless.
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Removing uptiers won’t solve the solve the issue of disparity between vehicles it will only make the problem worse. Now we have to make it that tanks only fight copies of each other. Teams of T-34s vs teams of T-34s, Tigers vs Tigers, Abrams vs Abrams. What will happen now is that difference between player skill levels will be exaggerated with lower skilled players getting wiped out and the matches being fought by higher skilled players, people will have no choice but to adopt the META and master it else they can no longer play/enjoy the game.
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Skill based matchmaker. Now that skill disparity is making it impossible for certain players to contribute to the game, we introduce skill based matchmaking so that players are technically battling other players of comparitive ability. Wrong, that gets ruined because players can manipulate their stats by playing badly or purposely throwing matches. You’ll end up with matches were certain players are deliberately playing badly to obtain favourable match making, and then puppy kicking players once their rank drops.
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This would mean that the only balance method is what the devs think is balanced based on looking at the stat card.
Look at the original brs for vehicles, that is where they would be under this system. (Wouldnt mind my ebr going back to 4.3 from 6.7 :))
It would also make any br change overlly drastic. Changing the br by one step would completely change the vehicles it can face.
Or the problem of how this game doesnt have everything fighting everything. Will someone that is good at tanks also be good with planes? Or good at 4.3 tabk also be good at 12.0 tanks?
Did i say something about “statcard”? I’m telling…balancing because of the “human” factor when you are talking of a potential of a vehicle isn’t good balancing.
If you have a Ferrari but can’t drive it like a Ferrari and you get passed from a Fiat Punto , does it make the Ferrari bad or the Punto good? No, just the driver is incompetent.
“Statcards”…
You can already categorize vehicles by technology levels/generations and the classification .
I don’t understand why it is bad for a vehicle to appear good in game if it was actually good against same gen/era /class vehicles so we have to make it trash against next level vehicles that didn’t ever met chronologically sometimes ,
BUT we have to make trash vehicles or other role vehicles be good or be good in a role that they were not ,artificially ?
And add the human factor to that…because that’s what the game does.
So you want the devs to balance vased on how they do in it? There are only so many ways to balance.
Because they want vehicles to be used.
Because historical mm is unbalanced. Go fight an is3 in a m5 stuart and tell me how much fun you have doing it.
By making other vehicles unusable or a so crap experience to be used.
Didn’t say historical…don’t put words in my mouth .
I said generations…generations is technology level. I also said role.
Ex. F -14A was in an era that many gen3 planes were in production or still in development, however it’s a gen 4.
There , because we are in a game, you can insert BR which it shows the power of a vehicle among its generation.
Stuart is a light tank , you can give it an extra modifier when it does recon/capping etc. or helping other vehicles (repair etc.) . Its role was support , not go toe to toe with IS-3.
In Air a Tornado IDS/GrX is a strike fighter, you can’t compare it with fighters even of the previous generation when it comes to air-air. Give it better modifier for GTs and when it kills GTs give it a better modifier at draining tickets than a fighter.
You will say after a point anything can multi-role, yes, that’s why i say give modifiers upping the gains to what it should do. You can still bomb with a MiG 23, but even an assist for Air kill should net you like 10 GTs in comparison. That way you can end the match ,if needs to , this way but you don’t aim to do that this way.
In general, if you want to make this work there are ways. There are wonderful ideas if you read around the forums, but we are stuck with the worst one.
Which ones? The ones that come to mind for me are the meme event ones.
So seperate by time periods basically?
Thats cool and all. But how will you make people play them?
Tell someone “hey, you can play this tank that cant engage most targets or this other one that can”. I wonder which they will choose. Sl/rp multipliers will not help much. People tend to want to get kills and not just spend the match hiding because they cant fight back.
Remember:
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Except when it faces 17prds, Russian 85mm or Italian 90mm.
It’s a TD. You get tracked and it’s already worse ability to target enemies gets even worse.
Not to mention the transmission.
The sides are weak like a Pz IV and it’s not like it’s invincibility from the front.
In which world is it the most OP ground vehicle?
Please tell me how Jagdpanzer IV is OP
Fast, has armor similar to Su85M, potent gun.
If M4A2 and KV1E were moved up to 4.3, the Jadgpanzer IV would still be the most armored 4.3 vehicle at the BR with an anti-tank gun.
There’s a reason a total of zero tank destroyers in War Thunder have my JPZ4’s KDR. and it’s not cause I’m inconsistent.
Yeah, about that:
Don’t really care about “Ifs”.
That is why when talking about Jagdpanzer IV You have ~3.03 K/D but when talking about M4A2 You have ~3.29 K/D nad KV-1E ~3.77 K/D… right
If Jagpanzer IV in Your opinion deserves the higher B.R. then M4A2 and KV-1E should too.
I have ~4.62 K/D on my premium Jagdpanther, ~3.54 K/D on SAV 20.12.48,. Doesn’t mean much really.
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the worst is facing SOMUA SM ,IS-3 or IS-6 on vehicles like T34, T26E1, T92, T95, you have mostly no way to pen it unless you do a cirurgical shoot, (on T92 you wont do shit till you unlock heat-fs at the last tier, which still doest little damage sometimes)