Uneven matckmaking

Game Discussion Arcade Battle
282

My reasoning is based more on a healthy mindset and a large dose of self-reflection.
What use is it to me to get angry about the BR situation? Nothing. What can I do about it? Become better.
There’s a wonderful saying:
“Give me the serenity to accept things I can’t change, the courage to change things I can, and the wisdom to distinguish one from the other.”
Another example:
When I started WarThunder I was so pissed off with CAS that I found my way here just like others and started my rant.
Then I learnt how to deal with CAS because I used SPAA. It took time but nobody can take the knowledge away from me. But CAS was still a problem.
Then, after resisting it for 20 years, I learnt the art of aerial combat. Takes 4 weeks. Since then I’ve had no more problems with CAS, on the contrary it’s so much fun to sweep the careless bomb-laden aeroplanes out of the sky before they reach the battlefield. The balance problems are another matter.

In short, I have always found a way to make things work for me without asking for changes on the outside that others have to make.
And one of the best lessons in life was … replace the word problem with opportunity.
Yes problems are problems but they are also opportunities.
I hope you understand what I mean. And maybe it can help you in one way or another. If not, I’ll be happy to try to explain it differently.

283

Here … perfect example … 6.7 lineup in a 7.7 BR battle …

did I manage that on my own? Yes and no. The team worked well by WarThunder standards. But if I had gone into this battle thinking “I can’t do anything there anyway” … the result wouldn’t have looked like this.
Thanks to the SPZ 12-3 LGS even a whopping 110,000 SL!

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btw … this match was right after my posting ^^

284

I think I understand it very well, including some of the consequences.

Don’t give a new vehicle full uptiers for some number of missions, say 3-5. This only works once and can’t be much exploited. It still gives you some time to fix up the unit. And it might already be implemented.

285

I have had similar battles… but that’s not the issue here. The basics of favouring some players on other players expenses in general is the problem. If you are all satisfied with the game… then fine with me. I know a lot of players who have left WarThunder becuase of the unfair match-fixing battles. Someone like you are pleased with the match-fixing system, but I would like more players to participate - reducing the queue time and making more revenue for Gaijin. Read some of the postings on the social media and you will know what I’m talking about.

286

But you get the same battles as everyone else. So are you also the one who is “favoured” or not?
I also want the community in WarThunder to continue to grow. I also want players to work more on themselves and become better … but so far I have no influence on that. I’m actually thinking about making “How to deal with CAS tutorials”.
If Gaijin were to adapt the BR now, all hell would still break loose in the community. It also has the flavour of giving people something they don’t need to do anything for.
I have acquired these skills to deal with it. Was that easy? No. Nobody asks how often I missed the shots at the beginning. Now it’s just fun and I don’t have to worry about it any more. It’s all a question of inner attitude. The players all have the same opportunities - all they have to do is practise.

Are the queues still a problem at all?

287

No, but average position in team does sort of indicate “usefulness”, as it were. If you consistently end up in the top of your team’s score lists it must mean you’re playing the objective, getting kills, and so on and not just sitting there waxing your gear shift lever - and if teams are balanced on this it ensures that both teams have an equal amount of useful and useless people. That would, in theory, be a “balanced” match.

2 Likes
288

Gosh, you haven’t read … or you don’t understand what I have been writing.
“The players all have the same opportunities”… well… NOT if don’t have the same tools. When you have to fight with 75 or 88 mm. guns against 105 mm guns ETC… then they don’t have the “same opportunities”… do they ? … 105 mm - 75 mm = 30 mm difference and the 105 mm. often have much better aiming (like the Leopard etc.) + much better ammunition.

I’m making statistics for almost all my battles - and no, I’m not being favoured… and I don’t WANT to be favoured …I want some fair battles with NO ONE being favoured. The issue here is, that Gaijin is controlling the outcome of a battle - before it even starts by introducing some favoured players … who make a lot of easy kills (high scores) on other players expense. Let the players be favoured by their skills only … and nothing else.

You have 172 Arcade battles where I have >33.000 and you don’t have the high tier tanks yet… so in my opinion, you should get some high-tier experience… and you will know what you are talking about.

289

I have noticed this too, however, if War Thunder were to take in your K/D ratio and implemented that into your matchmaking, some would say it’s 10x better, while some say it’s absolutely absurd. It would help with power creep in my opinion.

1 Like
290

Gosh, you haven’t read … or you don’t understand what I have been writing.
“The players all have the same opportunities”… well… NOT if don’t have the same tools. When you have to fight with 75 or 88 mm. guns against 105 mm guns ETC… then they don’t have the “same opportunities”… do they ? … 105 mm - 75 mm = 30 mm difference and the 105 mm. often have much better aiming (like the Leopard etc.) + much better ammunition.

Yes, I have. (I think so) In the end, the calibre with which you go into battle plays a subordinate role. After all, you’re not facing 15 opponents, none of whom you can fight. It’s part of the concept that you support your team and others support you. Even if that might be wishful thinking.
Likewise, on the opponent’s side, the other players have to deal with the same advantages and disadvantages. That’s what makes the “skill” in my eyes.
Getting the best out of your team with what you have. I’ve noticed that you often say that you want a fair chance. In my eyes, you’ve got it. Or how do others do it?
Quite apart from that, there seem to be bad balance problems in the high tier, which is the reason why I stopped at 8.0 to gain more experience for myself first.

I’m making statistics for almost all my battles - and no, I’m not being favoured… and I don’t WANT to be favoured …I want some fair battles with NO ONE being favoured.

Why do some players have the skill to deal with these situations and others don’t? After all, it’s skill that makes the “favoured” player get his arse kicked in such battles.
This game is based on the fact that I get my points by damaging the opponent, clearing him up and taking him out of the game.

The issue here is, that Gaijin is controlling the outcome of a battle - before it even starts by introducing some favoured players … who make a lot of easy kills (high scores) on other players expense.

It sounds as if the opposing team only has high tier and your team has low tier. But that’s not the case. Both teams have the same number of players with the same BRs.
Gaijin cannot influence the lineups, your decisions in battle or those of your team-mates.
If this is really the case in the Hightier, where the tanks simply roll through the teams, why do you do this to yourself? Because I have only rarely experienced this in the BR 7.0 range.
Let the players be favoured by their skills only … and nothing else.

You have 172 Arcade battles where I have >34.000 and you don’t have the high tier tanks yet… so in my opinion, you should get some high-tier experience… and you will know what you are talking about.

I play GRB. Arcade doesn’t feel good to me. RB for me is the compromise of missing skills for sim mode.
Do we really want to be on our stats to have a pleasant exchange of ideas or different points of view? I’m interested in yours and it’s important to me to understand them.
As I mentioned before, I stay out of the 8.0+ BR because I think I lack experience there.
My goal at the moment is to get through all the trees to 8.0 to understand my opponent better what he can and can’t do with the tanks.
Maybe that’s exactly the reason for our … “misunderstanding”?! So I imagine I understand you and I also respect your desire for a chance to have more fun in the game.
But perhaps our experiences, yours in the arcade and mine in the GRB, are so different that we would just be talking past each other forever. After all, Arcade and RB are worlds apart.

291

“Do we really want to be on our stats to have a pleasant exchange of ideas or different points of view?” … That’s called experience in my book and besides that, I have some experience on 592 tank vehicles from where 491 are fully spaded. I have seen how things have been changed during years of playing WarThunder … and when I see major changes in my battle statistics, then I starts analysing, searching for facts/reason for changes and raise my voice… I don’t like ANYONE being favoured by Gaijin … and they could just change the BR policy, so if I start on BR 7.0 … I dont have to fight with 75 or 88 mm. against 4 x Maus with 128 mm. + 75 mm. cannons + much better armour etc. (just an example). All I’m asking for is fairness … that’s all.

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That’s called experience in my book

It’s just important to me that I don’t judge you based solely on your stats and I hope you don’t either.
By the way, my stats are also extremely important to me. I’m watching developments very closely.

I have seen how things have been changed during years of playing WarThunder

A big advantage for you. I can relate too. I’ve invested over three years of my life into WoT… but that was 10 years ago. I noticed the decline of the game and stopped as a result.

and when I see major changes in my battle statistics, then I raise my voice

Interesting. This clearly shows what the difference between us two is. When I see my win rate drop I think about what I did wrong and what I can do better.

I don’t like ANYONE being favoured by Gaijin

I really appreciate it. I don’t want that either.

Is it possible that, I assume we both grew up in different cultures, that is exactly where the difference in the perception of the situation lies?
What do I mean by that? I was born in Germany and lived there until I emigrated to Sweden almost two years ago.
In Germany I was brought up in such a way that I always have to work hard on myself if I want to achieve something and that I always start with myself and see what I can do better. Here in Sweden I found a completely different culture. Everyone here is very nice to each other and here in the north no one puts themselves above anyone else.

Oh god, I hope you don’t get this the wrong way. This can be so misunderstood… I don’t mean to offend you.

Now I have to somehow get the curve back to WT… but I can’t manage it anymore… it’s 4:00 a.m. I’m sorry ^^

I dont have to fight with 75 or 88 mm. against 4 x Maus with 128 mm. + 75 mm. cannons + much better armour etc.

For me, that’s really the appeal. A situation that is potentially so dangerous that I really have to think about how I can get through it.

293

Some people are so naïve and polite that they can’t see the forest because of the trees - which, by the way, they have so many of in Sweden.
When players leave the WT due to other players being favoured and being given advantages at other players’ expense - then you should be able to talk about changing the game’s match-fixing.

This can easily be solved by changing the game - so that no one meets players with BR+1 higher than the vehicle with the highest BR rating in the player’s line-up.

If you want to fight against players with a higher BR, then you just make a mixed line-up with e.g. BR 7.0 + 6.0 or 4.7… or whatever you want. The difference lies in the fact that it is NOT the players who decide which BR level they will fight against… but Gaijin - who through their match-fixing gives some players advantages over other players.

When you start a match - you are actually notified that this is based on the highest BR level in your line-up. … but then Gaijin mixes some players in with a much higher BR level into the battle… WHY ? and why favouring any players at all ?

The matchmaking system is based on BR level - and not on the skills and experience of the players. Therefore, the solution is not to tell how fantastically skilled you are - but to change the system that makes the difference (favouritism)… If you are happy with the game as it is - then you should not waste time talking to me - because I argue that the game should develop for the better.

… And yes, we have a very different approach and perception of the game. This has nothing to do with my culture. (NB! I have lived and worked in both Norway, Sweden, Finland and in Denmark- but that’s personal stuff- not related to the issue here). The fact that you, as a German, grew up looking inward before you manage to point out obvious problems - is something - that has characterized the German people both during WW2 and afterwards. The fact that you now live in Sweden does not change the fact that Swedes would rather take care and talk of himself - than talk about obvious problems - Which we read about daily in the news. So much for culture - now back to the real issue: Match Making, BR and Match Fixing.

294

Some people are so naïve and polite that they can’t see the forest because of the trees

My politeness has to do with respect. Respect to listen to other opinions and points of view, to learn from them. Naive … hhmm … I’ve often heard that from people who are in their own bubble and analyse everything in a very complex way. Usually just not their own possibilities that offer simple options for action.

then you should be able to talk about changing the game’s match-fixing

I thought we were talking about it. About the possibilities you have as a player and about the ideas the developers have.

If you want to fight against players with a higher BR, then you just make a mixed line-up with e.g. BR 7.0 + 6.0 or 4.7… or whatever you want.

I would be interested to know how many players find this option for the arcade mode interesting. I think it’s a good idea. Because it means personal responsibility.

The matchmaking system is based on BR level - and not on the skills and experience of the players

I sometimes have the feeling that this is already happening. I sometimes zap through the players’ stat cards while I’m repairing or standing in cover. At the moment I’m being put into a match with a lot of players who have very little experience, while my opposing team is made up of players who have more experience. Of course, this is more of a subjective perception as I don’t keep any statistics on this. That would really take a lot of time.

And yes, we have a very different approach and perception of the game. This has nothing to do with my culture.

As I said before, it is not my intention to insult you or anyone else.

The fact that you, as a German, grew up looking inward before you manage to point out obvious problems - is something - that has characterized the German people both during WW2 and afterwards

I can guarantee you that the general German was and is not able to talk about problems, let alone solve them. They are extremely easy to manipulate through news and media. They would rather snitch on their own mum to the police than dare to work on themselves.

The fact that you now live in Sweden does not change the fact that Swedes would rather take care and talk of himself - than talk about obvious problems - Which we read about daily in the news.

That’s really interesting because it doesn’t correspond to what I experience here.

I think at this point you can say that we have different views and abilities to deal with situations.
That’s fine for me and, as I see it, for you too.
I was able to take a few things away for myself.
But last but not least, I hope inwardly that you didn’t feel too much anger because of my politeness. If you did … *sigh

I wish ya happy battles

295

Which, coincidentally, is exactly how the matchmaker works at the moment. You cannot see vehicles of more than 1 BR higher than your highest. In realistic, at least. I don’t play arcade anymore but I’m pretty sure it works the exact same way there.

You keep saying favouritism and match fixing but so far, I can’t seem to find any definitive proof you’ve provided.

On a tangent: your passive aggressive little jabs (forest through the trees… etc.) don’t do much to enhance your argument any. You may want to work on that…

296

Which, coincidentally, is exactly how the matchmaker works at the moment. You cannot see vehicles of more than 1 BR higher than your highest. In realistic, at least. I don’t play arcade anymore but I’m pretty sure it works the exact same way there.

I think that’s the point:

I have a vehicle lineup with a BR of 4.7, so I would only encounter vehicles with 4.7 BR. That’s how I understood it in any case. For example, in BR3.3 this would mean that I only have to fight against two different Russian tanks types.

297

This proposal is basically to make all matches like many of the current top tier vehicle ones. Do you enjoy those battles as nice? You can play them all day, always crowded.

Besides, is it realistic in military simulations that you personally always have the best equipment on the battlefield if you desire it?

298

That is not true. In most cases / battles, I have to fight against BR +1 enemies and sometime I have to fight against 105 mm. tanks with much better ammunition with a 75 mm or 88 mm. gun… which is typical WW2 tanks vs post WW2 tanks. (BR 7.0 vs BR 8.0) which is my perspective is not match-making … but match-fixing.

299

If you have a line-up with 4.7, your opponents should have max (+0.3) = 5.0 and all BR’s below BR 5.0, . There should be no policies in what country vehicles you must/can fight against. Secondly, the non-spaded vehicles should have a lower BR level until it reaches 50/75-100%… and the players experience should be a part of the BR calculation. It’s quite easy to make. Gaijin just have to add x% experience into the BR line-up (for each tank (Base BR+Experience+crew-skills)) for each player.

Here Gaijin could change the BR battle calculations into a new BR range (example) 4.0, 4,2 4,4, 4,6, 4,8 and so on. This would make it easier to calculate all the other factors into a new BR system / matchmaking - and change the opponent BR’s level accordingly.

Each tank factors should get a calculated BR based on the armour, speed, turret rotation speed, cannon and ammunition etc. (I have used AI to make a test calculation on the factors for two counties tanks (>40 tank calculations) and that changed most of the BR’s - compared to the existing BR calculations).

Then Gaijin could change the BR range accordingly and with a higher tank range in the match-making system (example) BR 4.0 against BR 4.4 / 4.6 enemies. - This way, we will have a much better and more fair battles … in my opinion… and hopefully attract more players from WOT etc.

Something has to be changed within the match-making system. Since a player makes up an average of 1/16th of the match, it cannot possibly be this one player who is the reason why the player has lost 15-20 battles in a row.
If, by the way, the player can usually rank 1-4 in many previous matches, No one should delude me that the player suddenly changes his behaviour to such an extent, that the player’s performance changes so drastically. Therefore, the player’s experience should be included in the BR calculations - along with the above suggestions.

Please read the above with an open mind and a constructive approach to how we can make the game better. My comments should not be seen as negative - but as constructive for the good of all.

300

When I wrote “some people” I didn’t know that you would take this personally :-) Some people also feel violated on behalf of other people… And that’s just how we’re so different.:-)

301

What has this to do with what I have writen? How did you enjoy your triple digit matches with your 11.7 tanks? You have had the very match composition that you advocate. Every player at 11.7 or below. You never have been downtiered once, you never face anything stronger.