You won’t believe how many times I have read something like this. And when I took the time to check, very often I find that the reports are wrong, distorted, selective or just invented. So I have difficulty to believe “claims” that I can’t verify myself.
You wont belive how many times I have been writing statistics of both downtired enemies and Teams differences / skills - AND received data from other players who have been measuring exactly the same … and just because, they started investigating how unfair the matchmaking is. I have collected data from YEARS of battles - … and you won’t believe how many times, I have read about players who don’t record any numbers from their battles… and on the same time - don’t believe in any data - but Gaijin data … which is not available anywhere public… and that’s for a good reason. If they had noting to hide… this kind of data would be available.
A few years ago, I came across a claim that was quite strong: “Premium vehicles have their first 20 matches top tier”. So I checked back with this guy and his replies sounded thoughtful and thorough. And he suggested, that the best thing I could do is try it myself. So I did. And I found that it isn’t as he initially suggested, but depends on mode as well. But after I got the limits straight, it turned out he was right within that frame. We tested it for a while but were accused to be making this up. So this fellow player announced that he was playing this new premium now and listed replay after replay, proving he ended up top tier. Some people never looked it up and still remained doubtful. The thread got locked and hidden eventually. And at least for me, they changed the rules by now.
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The only certain thing anyone can say about matchmaking is that Gaijin isn’t transparent with their rules so nobody will ever know what kinds of questionable matchmaking rules reside in the darkness.
In my 11 years of experience, my PERCEPTION is that the matchmaking strives to keep players from winning too much. If you do well or are a high skill player, prepare to be uptiered for a lot of matches.
I can say this with confidence because I make a note of every match of whether or not I am uptiered and by how much. On average, I am uptiered about 75% of the matches I play across many different ranges of battle rating. It’s statically unlikely that the percentage of uptier is this high with purely random matchmaking – which means there are probably a lot of players getting either uptiered or downtiered often based on multiple control inputs: skill, player level, vehicle mods, squad size, win/lose streak, win/lose percentage over time, etc.
Generally speaking, I would say that the matchmaking isn’t objective.
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Unless you are refering to full uptiers, this is about the statistical chance of not being top tier.
Yeah, I would say that I am top tier probably less than 5% of the time.
Collection of data from 13 friends playing WT + my personal statistic numbers: In 6 out of 10 battles they have to battle against downtired enemies with BR+1 and 8 out of 10 times against BR 0.7.
The game consists of mostly UNFAIR battles, where some players are getting favoured on other players expenses !
Still anecdotal… And prone to selection of what you’re being fed.
Also the ‘unfair’ is perception based.
Get a job in a kindergarden with all your anecdotal rubbish. The numbers collected (facts) says more about the unfair battles compared to Gaijin’s numbers. Even a 1. grade math can figure that out.
Your hate and anger and urge to dismiss the point, makes it clear you cannot handle the opposing argument, and hence why I’ve been saying about how your data is flawed, and you not liking it… In the end resorting to insults.
It shows you cannot counter this simple FACT that your data IS anecdotal and IS prone to being cherrypicked data because how do you KNOW that all the data you are getting is ALL the data, not just some matches where people think they’re outclassed.
And don’t say that you trust peopel to give you it, it’s because it all comes down to the fact that the data IS anecdotal.
With players like you on a discussion forum like this, it feels like I am at a kindergarten job…
‘Unfair’ is even just an interpretation problem even.
What numbers do you have to disprove us wrong? … NONE !!! and thus I see no reason to continue your rhetorical nonsense. If you have worked even a little with numbers, you will have met the concept of “trends” and have 14 players gathered statistics of their last 50 matches… then, all other things being equal, this is a logical argument - and better than the one that has NO numbers - and which claims that everyone else is wrong. This is tantamount to simplicity. I will ignore all future postings from you.
I don’t have to prove you wrong.
It’s not rhetorical, and the fact that you keep avoiding it shows that you can’t actually engage.
Your data is the definition of anecdotal, and whatever changes you made since we first engaged, doesn’t change it.
Well, as numbers are available, I decided that it might be time to check data.
So I looked at the last 10 games of Miss_Behaven, most recent game being Kuban on Dec 11th, oldest game checked Conquest Aral Sea Dec 9th…
As far as quickly possible, I tried to establish the placement in the BR range, relative to top BR. I got the following sequence, but of course I could be mistaken or have overlooked a vehicle. So I would appreciate it if someone could check these figures too. Maybe Miss_Behaven could look at her data and check if those last 10 games are correctly placed too.
+0 -0,7 +0 -0.7 -0.7 -1 +0 -1 +0 -0.3
The anecdotal evidence mentioned above and the actual sample do not seem to be in agreement.
I have collected data from my battles during the last two years and made an excel sheet with all battle numbers (most of them). Several friends have sent me similar data (which of course I cannot verify the validity of) but trust that we will collect as correct data as possible.
After analysis it’s no surprise, that those downtired opponents are always on the top-3 (kill ratio). I have received a lot of data from other players showing exactly the same trend in numbers.
From having the feeling that Gaijin’s matchmaking system is more of a match-fixing system, we now have some numbers to support this claim. Of course, this does not cover all battle data - but since Gaijin does not provide such data, players must collect what is possible.
These figures have been compiled purely out of a desire that we can fight on the principle of fairness and a level playing field - and that no player should be favoured in any ways.
My suggestion for a solution is that Gaijin makes the matches based on the highest BR number in the players’ line-up, whereby the players themselves can choose the highest BR number they want to fight from.
Thus, it is the players who control the level of BR matches… and not Gaijin. In principle, this is exactly what we do today. . . Choosing a line-up with eg. Max BR 7.0 - but where Gaijin decides that then you must also fight against BR 8.0. I’m happy to wait a little longer for the matches to start… just that it’s based on fair and equal terms.
I know many players who have left WarThunder because of the above - and I hope that more will return - and many new ones will join when Gaijin has changed their matchmaking system.
How did you manage to find those numbers ? What Gaijin shows in the line-up info from the battle stats are not the correct line-up data… In fact, a player could have 3 x BR +1 vehicles in the real line-up … but you cannot be sure, if that’s what in the battle-stats. If you choose to see what BR numbers the players have … you have to watch the game and from there, you can find the most accurate numbers.
Like this:
Same method for both of us. So check your stats list as to what numbers you have. In all those described games of you which I checked, when you were a 7.0 player, I never saw an 8.0 vehicle. And if you were hiding higher BR vehicles, the MM was even more kind.
As this is arcade, YOU can easily access the correct data during the match, but afaik, I can’t from the replay server. If you have the real stats, just give us the data.
Preach. Same here. I get 10+ kill games all day long, while my team gets barely 20 kills combined. I am against consistently average players who get about the same amount of kills. It’s like the game throws me into a game with bad teammates to “carry them”.
This alone just screams skill based match maker. Sure it works fine for the average player, he will never notice it. But when you get to 75%+ average position in a team, it really gets noticable. It was not always the case though, started noticing this mid 2022.
Now here is the kicker. Have you noticed that when you get high kill games in a row you then get debuff modifiers? Like your shell bounce increases, your armor is more thin? Likewise when you get bad games in a row, suddenly you start penetrating at extreme angles and bounce kv2 shells with a pakpuma.
I am so sick of foregoing 100% effort just for my teammates to throw the game.
I quit COD MW2019 for the same reason. At least the devs there had the decency to officially say they have SBMM implemented. Gaijin can never admit it, people would riot hard.
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Interesting because I have different numbers from within the game / battles. From my perspective - the most reliable data are not from Gaijin (who are showing different BR vehicles in the battle stats compared to the actual participated vehicles … then ask yourselves …WHY ?.. Why hiding the facts / truth ? ).
I have more trust in the data I make combined with the data I have received from more and more friends. Years ago Gaijin removed the vehicle BR info in the battles stats ? … why ? … what were they trying to hide ? … luckily we got them PARTLY back - because Gaijin does NOT show the correct BR level in the battle info. . After that, I started making my battle-info in excel sheets.
Many changes have been made to the game. When I started playing, the Russian bias was significant and many players complained about this. This has now been successfully changed - to a game that has improved.
What Gaijin should do - is to make max. BR level battles (with a spread of +/- O.3 BR)… then we will have more fair battles.
If you are to follow the argument that there are only very few enemies that are downtired, it is probably easy to make a quick calculation if, for example, it is 10% … yes, then we have to wait 10% longer for Gaijin to find some more players at a Max level compared to how the game is launched.
Now there are 10 countries represented in the game - and thus I see no problem with the fact that we will not face different enemies.
If Gaijin does not change the entire BR structure - it will be a good solution if the game is controlled via a max BR level. Thus, it is the players who decide at what level they want to fight… and not Gaijin. If you want to participate with a lower BR level, you can of course just insert a vehicle in your line-up at Max level.
Because players have these vehicles in their lineup but do not play them.
If you play arcade, the BR stats are still there. What are you talking about?
What you have written makes me doubt somehow that I can trust your stats.
Just like FlyingDoctor, you doubt anything and everyone who doesn’t convince you that Gaijin doesn’t use downtired enemies… and both your arguments and choice of words are incredibly similar. Strange coincidence.