I’m sorry, but that makes no sense.
T-64A would be 2nd gen by your definition, not 1st gen.
What gen is a T-62 then?
Is a T-55 Drozd suddenly 3rd gen? And a T-80U 2nd gen?
Are a T-80UK and T-14 Armata both 3rd gen?
See how attempting to break down MBT’s into generations falls apart at the slightest bit of critical analysis?
Chally 3 must be the worst challenger so i suggest we keep it to the 3rd gen as for now
by some definitions, its not even a MBT. And by some, even T-54 is an MBT already. Its a fun part of military history
I think we should probably just stop using generations altogether.
Like I said, it’s just nonsense that falls apart with the slightest bit of critical analysis.
(These are the more common agreeable things I could find, I am no expert in this specific topic and there are things that I could be very wrong about. If you doubt this info, I highly advise you to do your own research to get your own conclusions.)
What’s commonly defines a generation for MBT’s.
Generation 1
Gen 1 are defined being the first “Universal Tanks”, Tanks that are matching or even outmatching the heavy tanks in protection and firepower, allowing them to be used more effectively in mutliple roles.
First generation tanks are primarily medium tanks and later changed into main battle tanks through changes in doctrine.
The first generation tanks include
Centurion
T-54
M48 Patton
Fv4202
T-55
Type-59
Type-61
(Other tanks at the time that could be given the designation too, but weren’t due to their medium tank designation.)
M26 Pershing
Pz.V Panther
T-44
2nd generation
The second generation of MBT marked a turn in the doctrine. This generation was also marked by the utilisation of Night vision, new advanced ammunition such as the APDS, HEAT, HESH and later the APFSDS.
The second generation tanks include
M60
T-62
Leopard 1
Panzer 61
MBT-70
Vickers MBT Mk.I
AMX-30
T-64
FV 4201 Chieftain
Magach 3
Strv 103
WZ 122
Panzer 68
Type-69
T-72
Type-79
Olifant Mk.1/Mk.2
Type-74
Magach 5
Vickers MBT Mk.3
Shir 2
Merkava Mk.I / Mk.II
Type-80
Type-86
Type-96
OF-40
MB-3 Tamoyo
3rd Generation
The third generation of main battle tanks is characterized by composite armour and computer-stabilized fire control systems, which allow firing on the move as well as very high first hit probability on targets multiple kilometres away. Most of those tanks had calibers larger than 105mm.
The list of 3rd gen tanks are
M1 / M1A1 / M1A2 Abrams
Leopard 2
T-80
T-84
Challenger 1
AMX-40
M-84
K1 / K1A1
Merkava Mk.III
Type-90 / Type-90 T-ReC
Leclerc
T-90A
T-72M2 Moderna
PT-91 Twardy
Ariete
Challenger 2
ZTZ-96A / B
ZTZ-99
MBT-2000
Arjun Mk.1
Sabra M60
M60A3 SLEP
Generation 3.5
An intermediate generation of third-generation tanks modernized with newer hardware and software to keep themselves up to date with the everchanging modern battlefield.
These upgrades are often included (not always at once,) as for example; more advanced thermal sights (Generation 3), datalink capability, Softkill APS, hardkill APS, Laser Warning Receivers.
List of gen 3.5 tanks include
Merkava Mk.4M
Leopard 2A7+
T-84 Oplot-M
T-90M
K1A2
ZTZ-99A
VT-4
T-80BVM
T-72B-3 UBH
M1A2 SEP V2 / V3
Leopard 2 PL
Ariete AMV
Type-10
K2 Black Panther
Challenger 2 Black Knight
4th generation
The next generation of main battle tanks in development has autoloaders becoming increasingly more common, even in western designs, with some moving all of the crew into a more heavily protected hull space with unmanned turrets. The tendency to increase calibre sizes continues, with multiple designs having capability for 140mm guns to be fitted. A greater focus on active protection systems, especially against drones and loitering munition is also present, as is the introduction of AI-assisted systems.
4th generation list of tanks include
T-14 Armata
Leclerc XLR
Challenger 3
Type 100
KF-51
Abrams X
M1E3 Abrams
Leopard 2A8
Seems like someone also making assumptions without any experience on this tank.
Gun depression and elevation degrees can be adjusted by suspension so it actually gets much better depression than most tanks at same br.
Both horizontal and elevation speeds are at acceptable rates (should be 45/30 iirc but gaijin refuses to fix it) .
I thought it was a nerf since type 10 has 4 second reload.
Maybe that’s what they think but still its such a BS way to nerf it. Type-10/TKX armor is already nerfed compare to real life values so why would you go and nerf the gun handling as well?
the BMPT shreds the type 10 frontally so I’ve noticed more people bringing the oplot instead. Imagine if Japan didn’t get the oplot and were stuck with type 10/tkx against the BMPT. Crazy
Meanwhile I refused to grind OPLOT and hunting those pesky BMPT’s in my Type-10/TKX be like:
That also decreases your max elevation/depression angle so when you drive down from a hill with “additional depression” all you can shoot is worms. And cant get your guns on any flying threats. Also keep in mind that adjusting suspension requires you to spend some time standing still. Not something you can do mid fights. I have played kpz70 and bmp3 so I know how it works.
They arent. Especially elevation speed. You can check out t72b3, t90m, t80bvm, leo2 and see acceptable rates.
Since TKX doesn’t have any sort of proxy round it’ll be waste of time to engage air units with main cannon.
It takes couple seconds which is not game breaking since you should be already on good flanking position.
This guy told me to check my most played tanks lmao.
Those are not acceptable rates, those are perfect values and not everyone has access to them.not to mention Russian top tier tanks should be stuck with 5 degree elevation speed like premium T-80U-E1 because of using same FCS but Gaijin refuses to fix it.
I constantly play with tanks that has worse elevation speeds or similiar values so its more than acceptable.
As I’ve said before don’t make hard claims about a vehicle that you don’t own.
Even more disadvantages
Adjust it for one position, then adjust it to change position, then adjust it for another position. While stuff like abrams can always have their gun on target. You really dont see the issue?
That doesnt really justify type 10 elevation speed values being one of worst at top tier.
Oh yes I cant say vehicle X is good or bad because I dont own it. Its not like I have played better vehicles and can compare their parameters with type 10 values and make conclusions. By your logic, I cant claim kh38mt is best agm because I dont own any kh38mt slinger. Cant claim t90m is inferior to t80bvm because I dont own t90m.
They can buff the Type 10 now… look at how OP those BMPT are.
Despite their nerfs they perform well enough according to statistics so Gaijin will most likely not gonna buff them anytime soon.
also type 10
and yes i also have t90m and let me tell you i prefer adaptability over just having good armour with no other benefits
Cosplaying rock wow. Abrams can do same without having to mess with suspension every time you get into position or change it.
The only big advantage. Tho abrams and leclerc have 5s which is still 2nd best reload. Both of them have those reload rates since 10.7 and 11.0 btw (m1 abrams and msc).
Other nato tanks have fine reverse speed and leclercs have almost identical hp/t ratio (while others have slightly worse values)
Okay but its not really helpful. 2a7hu also has 1200x800 thermal btw.
Its called m829a2 which can be found on 12.0-12.7 abrams
And there are backup abramses with better armor, better gun handling, better round and extra crew mate which improves survivability. 3 strv 122 with better armor, gun handling and extra crew mate. Those are pretty much major advantages unlike bit higher thermals resolution yknow. Add to that fact that you can utilize those advantages at 10.7, 11.3, 11.7 (or even 9.0) on earlier abrams models.
T80bvm exists if you want “other benefits” in your soviet lineup btw.
Or the 2S25M if you want to larp as a cardboard box with a cannon and 3rd Gen Thermals
