You dont need trust vectoring to hit 50gs…
You kinda do though. Non trust vwctoring missile capable of those kind of g pulls arent on aircraft that aside r77 isnt capable pulling 50gs.
You dont, there are plenty of examples of missiles capable of doing that kind of gs without thrust vectoring, like the asraam or the phyton 4, the thing is that at even on trust vectoring missiles most of the force is applied by the control surfaces as you cant realistically get into these kind of gs unless the missile is going pretty much at it maximum speed. You can see this pretty well on the mica where you cant anywhere close to 50g unless it is going fast enough
irrelevant.
my argument was that r77 cant pull 50gs.
irl i can see it maybe theoretically be able to pull 50gs right at the moment its at its peak of acceleration. but that really doesnt matter does it?
It is still a 90s missile, btw it is a medium range missile, with relatevely small control surfaces so it is completely possible that the r77 can reach those with lattice fins that are well know to be able to operate at much higher AOA without stalling, again original argument that you were claiming is you cannot reach 50g whitout thrust vectoring and i just proved you that is not the case, so your hole argument is pretty much meaningless, so unless you have a better evince that it cannot reach 50g the youre just talking bs.
It pretty much matters…
btw where do you even think that the r77 is pulling 50gs in game ? buddy the r77 aint pulling 50gs at mach 1, they are not pulling 50g at mach 1.5 either they are pulling them at much higher speeds, like btw most missiles, even the ones with thrust vectoring…
We can shoot missiles to the Moon, but if there is a target there and it cannot be locked, with IRST or the radar, then it can propel itself out of the Solar System and its nothing but a traveling rocket. Point is, well said, missiles are nothing if they cannot lock.
It is funny that you say that, most of the uptier jets I used in this game up to about 6 months ago were Russian jets. I rarely flew my F16C with its Aim7s because it was going up against r27ers, the rest of the team was getting smashed…etc. But at the same time I always realized that in the last 30 years or so US jets, or in effect NATO jets have smashed Eastern jets in the air and thats in reality.
And so when the Fox 3s came out, and everyone started jumping on the F16 and F15 bandwagon, I did as well because, well maybe they were finally performing in game like they do in real life.
I will always believe there was a Russian bias in this game, up until about a year ago, and I really believe that Money and Revenue was the reason for the change more than anything. Some Billy Bob Redneck sitting here in US isnt going to keep spending money if the US planes he always heard about arent any good in game. LOL, good luck mate
Weird take since the previous meta was dominated by close range furballs with the AIM-9M, not the 27ER, being king and the F-16C only being surpassed by the Grippen…
4 Likes
This is true. I still have a blast in the Su-27 once I get within 12km of my target when I can rely on the 27ERs, and the R-73s are incredibly good in dogfights. It is true that the meta has shifted to Aim-120s, but when the meta was SARH, Russia was the undisputed king of top tier ARB.
1 Like
magic 2 can pull 50g’s with dual plane but dual plane isnt modeled in wt
The previous meta was Fox-2 furballs and the undisputed king was the Grippen and the F-16C before it. We never had a SARH meta for the 27ER to dominate. 100m multipathing made sure of that.
edit:
and russia certainly wasn’t a BVR king in the days before the flanker when their absolute very best planes had a staggering stockpile of an entire two (2) Fox1s.
8 Likes
I will go with that, but perhaps I hated that era of WT in F16c because I had a lot of teammates who tried to Long Range Joust with r27ers, and there for a while flying in a F16c was like playing with a last place team, whole team being smashed in 3 or 4 minutes…Its like they got Tom Brady, when the fox 3s came out.
No doubt about it.
Literally, 100 meter multipathing made basically any Fox 1 irrelevant if you played smart.
3 Likes
A BVR meta couldn’t exist with 100m multipathing because it was trivial to just hug the ground into the merge where you could go crazy with IRCCM missiles. What the 27ER was best at was punishing people that tried climbing above the multipath height to try to cut some corners in their turns within the fox2 furball. Everything was centered around the furball.
Even without multipathing, you can’t seriously compete at BVR with only two Fox1s. American were seething that the missile was better than their sparrow, and it would have been much deadlier if stapled to an F-14 in supplies of six or so, but russia themselves didn’t get a single plane that could carry the 27ER in any appreciable numbers until the Su-27 and that meta was SOLIDLY dominated by the Grippen. Because again: There was no BVR meta in a 100m multipathing environment.
6 Likes
Me personally, I never understood the whining about the R-27ER, it didn’t really start shining until 60 meter multipathing.
I was just outside smoking when a plane popped into my head, in the last meta, the F16A with its six aim9Ls., Not bad now, however, then and even more so now, look I have the early A10 at BR10.7 I believe, with two aim9Ls, and its a beast at that BR, but yet still players beginning to flare those off as it is easy to do. Now, at BR12.7 flying an F16a, is tiresome, you almost have to sneak up on people to get an airkill, because with the heavy calibur countermeasures at that BR, aim9Ls might as well be aim9Bs. No radar missiles, so you somewhat have to hide, or be a very good defensive player at the start of match. DEFYN, on YouTube said as a joke let me take this F16A out with six aim9Ls, and he even said it was laughable. Would you say this is correct, with all its great flight performance, aim9Ls just dont cut it at BR12.7 against someone even half experienced.
I have about all the planes I want, but one of the last ones I am about to come up on, the Yak141, I am curious to see how it will do…but I think it would be a curiosity to be able to play and have an option to play the game, post update so and so, which will never happen, but I believe the Yak141 must have been a beast about a year ago. Everyone flies differently, I have noticed over my 12 years since Beta, hence all the players favorite planes, I love the Zero, for instance, a boom and zoomer may hate it. But Im saying that to say, I will take a good radar missile over a good IR any day myself. It just seems its a lock thats harder to break. I am quick enough with them as I have 9 buttons on my mouse, lol, as they are for me, just as quick an option as an IR. Yeah, one good thing about the IRs is a lot of them have a good G pull, I have seen the r73s in particular, do things, no other IR in game can do. I miss being able to use them in the current BR13 action, its becoming more of a “6-7km on out battle” now.
With two r27ers, and two r27s, the Yak 141 seems on paper, if it has a good radar, a sneaky character.
The 141 is held back by its low pylon count, the lack of its IRCCM dogfight missiles, low countermeasure count, and subpar RWR. The 27ER is still the best Fox-1 by a lot, but in uptiers the worst Fox3 fundamentally has an advantage over someone who needs to maintain a lock with a fox1. Despite being subsonic the SPAMRAAM harrier one BR step above the 141 is a much better fighter.