It takes a single match to unlock chaff. This is nothing but skill issue
That’s what people say but it doesn’t work. Maybe it’s because I use BOL chaff which is significantly smaller?
It takes 5 - 6 for a bad player like I
Massive skill issue
Skill issue that Skyflash and R-Darter sucks I guess
Not truly top tier, but -
F5E.
Chaff costs 7500 RP.
Now, F5E has a 238% RP modifier in RB and SB alike.
In RB,
1 second alive at 90% activity is worth 0.9x1.22.
To obtain 7500 RP purely from staying alive in a victorious match, 2 * x * 1.22 * 0.9 * 2.38 = 7500
x = 23 minutes
Now, obviously getting a 90% activity means we have obtained ~1800 score. 1800 score corresponds to either 3 kills and 3 critical hits (450+150) or 4 kills (450). 1 kill is worth 114x2.58 RP, 1 crit is worth 11x2.58 and 3 kills give us 75% RP bonus, 4 kills 100% RP bonus. Either way, if we get 3 or 4 kills we’re instead looking at
7500 - (4x114x2.38x2) = 5329 RP
2 * x * 1.22 * 0.9 * 2.38 * 2 = 5329
x = 8.50 minutes
Thus, “It takes a single match to unlock chaff”
requires us to kill 4 enemy aircraft with stock guns, stock missiles, no G-suit, likely no expert crew (but presumably maxed crew), no chaff, survive for at least eight and a half minutes AND win. If we lose, we need to survive for
1.34 * x * 1.22 * 0.9 * 2.38 * 2 = 5329
x = 12.68 minutes
To unlock chaff in one game
What if it’s 3 kills and 3 crits?
7500 - (3x114x2.38x1.75 + 3 x 11x2.58 x 1.75) = 5927
2 * x * 1.22 * 0.9 * 2.38 * 1.75 = 5927
x = 10.8 minutes if we win
1.34 * x * 1.22 * 0.9 * 2.38 * 1.75 = 5927
x = 16.12 minutes if we lose.
Based on the mathematics presented above based upon the research here (Report on how scores, SL, and RP rewards are calculated)
it is possible to unlock chaff in a single game under very, very special conditions.
Again:
- Stock Missiles
- No chaff
- No G-suit (so you black out while maneuvering)
- No engine mods so you accelerate like a boat
- No boosters so less AoA at high speed
- Likely not an expert crew, but let’s ignore this part
- Stock guns (massive shotgun spread!)
Under these conditions,
you must:
Get 3 kills with 3 critical hits AND survive for 16.12 minutes in a losing match, 10.8 minutes in a winning match
Or get 4 kills with no critical hits and survive for 8.50 minutes in a winning, 12.68 minutes in a losing match.
Now, it’s possible to get higher activity than 90% - absolute best I’ve observed was 3070 score at 14:38 minutes for 98% activity. I think, given what we know of the function from air sim - likely represents the maximum possible.
We might obtain the RP needed in 7% faster time, not insignificant but well within order of magnitude
Or get 90% activity with 0 kills (CASing howitzers, SPAA, shooting a.i planes, assists). Assists are worth 51x2.38 and give 300 score, ground targets give 135 or 34 depending on “size”, A.I give 225. In terms of RP, they’re 11x2.38, 4x2.38, 20x2.38.
There’s a large variety of ways we can achieve 1800 score for 90% activity, so we’ll go for CASing ground targets and neglect the subtracting and reuse our original calculation
23 minutes if we win, impossible in a single match if we lose
The only way your claim can realisitcally be fulfilled given the conditions presented is in air simulator battles where a single match corresponds to potentially 3 hours of gameplay.
Now viability of obtaining that score in missile thunder air sim without G suit, without good missiles is likely worse… but given enough deaths we can force the issue.
For what it’s worth, a 15 minute cycle at 427 score (corresponding to little over 75% reward at 400 score - see (Community Bug Reporting System)) gives our F5E 2970 RP. Extrapolating to maximum potential at 1050 score, we’re looking at 2970/75*92= 3643RP. This value is without landing, with landing we can obtain an additional 742 at 75%, and thus 910 at maximum for total of 4550 RP per 15 minute cycle.
It is mathematically impossible to unlock chaff in a single 15 minute cycle, and also impossible if we survive 2 15 minute cycles in full with either 75% or 92% reward but fail to land. We must survive both 15 minute cycles and land after both events to satisfy the unlock.
Rather conveniently, I also have data for what 5:02 minutes of zero things achieved looks like - 135 score for dying, 662 RP. We can therefore unlock our 7500 RP chaff by surviving 12 5 minute cycles where we get shot down each time.
So technically, it’s possible in air sim without requiring exceptionally rare probabilities.
Now.
F5E isn’t top tier.
Let’s look at a top tier plane - f16C.
RP modifier: 256%
RP cost of chaff: 9000
For reference, our calculations with F5E were based on
RP modifier: 238%
RP cost of chaff: 7500
Our RP cost increased by 9000/7500= 120% while our RP gain increased by 18%.
It’s safe to assume the amount of kills, conditions of winning, time survived and all that remain proportionally the same.
Rather notable how even with our 4 kill game where we absolutely dominated and won… we need a 8:50 minute long game we survived in full to unlock chaff.
From trying to obtain base bombing RP per base health and confirm if it’s the same at top tier as prop tier, it wouldn’t be lying to claim that top tier matches often end at around that time mark if not even faster.
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R-Darter on the ZA Gripen is absolutely poggers
You absolutely have no idea what you’re talking about
RP boosters are your friend :)
Your skill issues are not my problem :)
That requires existence of an RP booster, and does not remove the need for an optimal game - it makes the 4 kill game fit within the average match length window for both win and loss. You’d need a fairly rare one (100%) to make it work for the 3 kill game with a loss (16.12 minutes gets reduced proportionally, likely under the match duration. 10.8 minutes will high probability fall into the scope at hand).
However, for the 0 kill game where we could earn the score needed for 90% activity by killing howitzers/A.I we’d something like a 200%er to fit into a realistic missile thunder game length, if not a 300%er. This one is a bit hard to predict as the booster acts on everything, so negligible source of RP might become significant and all that.
Again, probabilities don’t say it’s “impossible” to get chaff in a single match, but it’s definitely going to require some stars aligning and adding a booster increases the improbability of the event further.
In sim, it does make our 55 minutes of dying every 5 minutes faster though as respawns preserve the booster and it lasts 30 minutes flat. Our risk instead is the lobby being a ghost lobby, lobby that ends as we join, horrible weather (clouds on top of airfield and whatnot), bad objective RNG .
Took me a single sim match with the Su-30 to get chaff for it, so idk. Maybe I’m just an outlier :)
F5E RP mod 238%, RP cost of chaff: 7500
Su-30SM: 262%, RP cost of chaff: 9200
Maximum possible RP gained in F8E in 15 minutes (92%):
3643 + 910 = 4553
Adjusting for Su-30’s economic modifier
4010 + 1010 = 5020
Yes, 2 92% reward cycles where you land both times satisfies the chaff requirement (30 minutes, plus time to land)
However, 2 92% reward cycles where you did not manage to land either time (either because you RTB’d at 10 minutes, landed and then loitered 20 minutes and then died before returning. Also, second UA reward deletes your first 20% landing bonus,)does not satisfy
1 UA cycle where we land, 1 UA cycle where we don’t land is just barely shy of of unlocking chaff (4010+4010+1010 = 9030 out of 9200)
This is assuming we were able to obtain 1050+ score both cycles. At 450 score (1 kill without a crit), we’re looking at 2x5020/92x75= 8184 RP. With a crit, it goes to 86% so 2x5020/92x86 = 9385. We cannot really control if our kill is a instant pilot kill, a severe damage or deadly crit so it’s a bit RNG. Still, it’s possible to achieve chaff with 1 kill per 15 minute cycle for 2 cycles assuming we survive and land after both kills and time our landing so that it happens after the necessary 15 minutes pass.
However, sim matches can last 3 hours and has infinite respawns so we can use a technicality as earlier described - dying 12 times with 5 minute survival can provide chaff in a single sim match.
However, it does not change that fact that in RB it’s highly improbable (stock plane and 4 kills and 8 and half minutes alive and win, or increasingly longer time alive until we need a 23 minute match that we win with 0 kills).
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Have you done the stock grind of the Mirage 2000Ei?
It’s 16k RP to open the chaff+maw and until you release the mod you only have 12 flares.
It is not a skill issue… it is game design issue.
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No, why would I play a copy-paste vehicle in a copy-paste tree which has a higher cost per modification than the original? 😂 M2k5F grind was silky smooth and it was very easy to perform well in it. I have since moved on to Rafale which was an even easier grind
It does though when used correctly.
Why?
chaff is a necessity for doing literally anything that isn’t flying below 60 meters.
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it shouldn’t be locked at all. It also only takes a single match if you have a great, long match, which is unlikely in a stock aircraft.
You’re just flamebaiting.
Not at all, I even have a ~3 kd on both the m2k5f and the rafale. I literally don’t understand how people struggle so much. Folks should a Bad Karma video or something for tips to make the grind easier if it’s really that bad. Alternatively, play lower tiers until they develop the necessary skills
Who cares. What you do personally isn’t the conversation. The conversation is “is this fair in the slightest, or are these things you require to do well at this BR” and the answer is yes, you do need these things overall. I too can do well in crappy planes, it doesn’t mean anything regarding general balance and game decisions.
Not having chaff = not being able to play, generally speaking. Even to an experienced player this means you are forced to mow lawn until you get chaff. It’s not enjoyable nor fair.
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