Top Tier Ground Decompression

Game Discussion General Discussion
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1

With air top BR being 12.7 and a number of new top tanks being added recently, there is no reason for the top BR for ground to be 11.7 like it has been for a year now.

11.3
Ariete add spall liners
Ariete PSO add spall liners

11.7
Leopard 2PL remove DM43, add Pz.531/2, DM63
M1A1 AIM increase LFP armour by 35%
Ariete AMV add spall liners
Merkava 4B/LIC reduce reload to 5s (ace)

12.0
T-80BVM
Leopard 2A6s
Leopard 2PSO fix composite absorbing shells that would otherwise ricochet
Strv 122A/B
M1A2 increase LFP armour by 35%
M1A2 SEP v1 increase LFP armour by 35%
Challenger 2E
WZ1001(E) LCT
ZTZ-99A
Leclerc SXXI
Type 10
TKX
Merkava 4M reduce reload to 5s (ace)
XM1069
Tor M1
ItO 90Ms

12.3
M1A2 SEP v2 add M829A3, increase LFP armour by 35%
T-90M add 3BM-59
Leopard 2A7V fix composite absorbing shells that would otherwise ricochet
Strv 122B+
Challenger 3 add turret spall liners
VT-4A1
Leclerc AZUR add OFL 120 F2
Pantsir S1

Any vehicles not mentioned would be unchanged.
Likely to change as I get input and continue research

Chally 3, VT-4 may end up dropping down to 12.0 but I’d recommend moving them to 12.3 at first. Gaijin’s more consistent at moving an underperforming vehicle down than an overperforming one up.

odd and ends

DM63 fires the same penetrator as DM53 but with a new propellant charge. Marginally lower penetration due to muzzle velocity of 1650m/s vs 1670 for DM53.
Pz.531/2 is a Polish variant of DM33 using a segmented penetrator, providing slightly less flat but slightly more sloped penetration over DM43.
3BM-59 is a DU variant of 3BM-60 (or rather 3BM-60 is a tungsten 3BM-59) with 10% better penetration.
OFL F2 is a DU variant of OF F1. I cannot find penetration data but presumably it’s ~10-15% better than F1.
M829A3 is based on M829A2 but slightly thicker and with a steel tip to defeat ERA. DM53 also features an anti-ERA steel tip but its function isn’t modelled so I’m assuming M829A3 wouldn’t either. Nonetheless, M829A3 still provides ~10-15% improved penetration over M829A2 depending on range.
Merkava reload
M1A2 armour is complicated. Lots of yelling back and forth has pushed threads discussing the topic into the thousands of posts, making useful information a needle in a haystack. Generally based on these threads and summarized by this bug report the M1A2 (or maybe SEP?) onwards should have 35% better KE protection on the LFP, bringing it up to ~515mm. This may or may not be DU. It’s at least somewhat speculative, but that’s honestly nothing new and it’s reasonable for balancing.
The Challenger 3 doesn’t have turret spall liners, but that’s simply because it was never supposed to be used in combat. It’s reasonable to add them, and would definitely be necessary to prevent the Chally from being completely outclassed. If someone has a better idea to soft buff the Chally, let me know. Not DM73, 20% better than the already great DM53.

What do you think?

9 Likes
2

Pretty nice list for decompression assuming everything left out doesn’t move
Some of the Challengers i don’t agree with but i think thats just personal preference

3

the challenger 2E at 12.0 seems a bit rough…

4

Which Challys do you specifically disagree with?

1 Like
5

dude the challenger 2E

it’s just a base challenger 2 with a stronger engine… which means you can be auto cannoned from the front even by a Bradley

6

It mainly personal but i think the black night is the best 11.7 challenger 2 just due to the APS and don’t like the TD due to the longer reload but your list seems fine any way it just a personal thing

7

Depending on the changes they make to the TES i can see it going higher then 11.3 but it depends on if they do change it

8

Alright, I’ll consider that. If that seems to be a popular opinion I’ll definitely change the post :)

1 Like
9

And the Arietes should honestly go down to 11.0 or 10.7

10

Probably won’t people really like the better dart the TD has but good list anyway :)

11

Well he is assuming they get spall liners brings them up a bit

1 Like
12

they have the mobility and armor of 9.0 tanks at 11.3

13

quick side note, what the hell was Gaijin thinking with them, the poor things… the Arietes at 11.3 is like putting a cat in a cage with a bunch of rabid dogs

14

Yes, they’re bad but they’re not horrible, at least from my research. They’ve got DM53 at its lowest BR, 2nd gen thermals, and the turret armour at least isn’t useless - usually.
But they definitely aren’t competitive which is why all 11.0+ ones got buffed without moving up in BR.
In this proposal, they’d only fight what’s currently at their tier in uptiers and should be fighting a lot more of the 10.3s-11.0s that they can outgun.

1 Like
15

11.3 seems high for even the challenger 2, but the Ariete?

16

WTF VT4A1 12.3? this **** of **** is even worse than ZTZ99A

18

Leclercs need way more than a new round. Update the armor accurately, reduce reload to 4 seconds and give them all F2 or SHARD.

At the moment they are basically all the same and should be sitting at like 10.7

1 Like
19

Really good list, i would put the type 10 at a higher br of 12.0 but with around 620 mm of armor in the turret and 650 in the Hull, with of course armor Xray model fixes wich would make it cover a larger area such as the fact the type 10 Hull armor it’s inversed and upside down, i could put the better reload aswell but a Lot of people would be mad Even if it went to 12.3

20

Correct me if im wrong, but i recall 3BM60 cant physically fit into T-80U/UK autoloader.

LFP armor isnt an issue with abrams. 2A7V still has the same LFP as 10.3 Leopard 2A4 (and no one shoots there for some reason), still is considered game breaking by many. What 2A7 brings is increased UFP protection that can no longer be lol penned by russian top tier rounds. If abrams got increased LFP protection, it would still die as fast to turret ring shots.

Thats what abrams needs, and thats what can be achieved by fixing the model, because AFAIK its turret ring is too exposed due to incorrect model, and its UFP is half of its IRL thickness. Thus, assuming i recall the abrams model issue correctly, rather than increasing LFP protection that would do nothing to increase the abrams survivability, its model should be fixed.

1 Like