The second-generation jet fighters with fox3 should get lower BR

The F-4F ICE and Chinese J-8F are only generation-2 fighter,and their IR missile have no IRCCM,especially Germany F-4F ICE only has AIM-9L,although they got Fox3,they are only the 2nd-generation jet wich means they have worse engine and worse flight performance,it cause they can’t perform these active-radar AAMs perfectly.
However,the BR of F-4F ICE and J-8F is 12.7 and 12.3,this BR will makes the players of these aircraft are pain,F-4F ICE and J-8F have to compete with 4th-generation fighters(and they also get FOX3) like F-16C,F-15C,Su-27SM…
So it might be a better choice to lower them to a lower BR so they can fight with these 4th-generation jets without Fox3 like F-16A and Mig-29,its also a more balanced choice.


Ah yes because when i want to play my A-7K or F-4E that means i obviously must want to fight aim 120s and pl-12s


I don’t know what you’re on about, but both aircrafts aren’t 2nd Gen fighters

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if f4f ice are in 12.3 br could it better?

IMO F-4F ICE should have AIM-9Li that is basically AIM-9M with smokes.

Current F-4F ICE would be DOA.


Chief respectfully I disagree. Fox 3s are likely to be extremely powerful and should not be lowered unless there is literally no other option.


Can we wait to see how they play first?


If anything their br are not high enough, you should really get to know what FOX3 can do babe. Even the worst FOX3 can suppress the best FOX1 with 0 skill.


A Phantom at top tier is DOA.


the biggest problem here is compression, whilst yes they are not in an Ideal position, however by lowering them it makes them incredibly OP, even if they went down to 12.3 they would be way to powerful in a downteir, facing aircraft with limited chaff and flares, not to mention the AMRAAMs are extremely good missiles, and the ICE has 4 9Ms to compliment them

on top of this the Sea Harrier will have to be an even lower BR due to its being worse as it currently has a Max missile load of 4 9Ms and 2 AMRAAMs on a subsonic 9.7 airframe. so lets wait and see how they perform before complaining shall we?

Everyone seems to overlook the Sea Harrier having the disadvantages of being slower, and in turn not having as much range.

But oh god the horror, the Germans have to use a Phantom! God forbid, whatever will we do?

I know what we’ll do. (German mains, or anyone who is a wetwipe, avert your eyes)

Like genuinely, it could be worse. You could be in your old Phantom, being asked to fight F-14s.

Unlike now where you have a decent enough radar, and decent enough missiles to exact some sort of retaliation. You’ll have to avoid the merge, but, well, plenty of other aircraft manage that. British Tornado F.3s or Italian ADVs, which, by the way, perform worse than you at the merge, either make it work, or avoid the merge outright. Wgile yes admittedly a Phantom isn’t the best airframe, it’s not unusable.


So the same issue as the last 10 years with compression.
New planes should be BR 14 or something and then garbage tier Phantoms can be 13.0 or whatever.

Think the expectation for mayor nations like Russia/Germany/US is that they’re more on par with eachother, minor nations are usually a bit behind.

I mean in an ideal world yes we’d have decompression. For whatever reason Gaijin seems determined to not bother with that idea and make everyone’s grind needlessly worse (probably to squeeze a few more dollars out of everyone)

so unfortunately, for the foreseeable, the best thing the Germans can do is cope. and hope for maybe a new IR missile or a buff to the 9L, which has been on the cards for some time. Currently they’re not nearly resistant enough.

two things there:

define major?

Anything could be a major if you put enough of the right vehicles in.

and moreover, why the disparity? Why should Germany get more aircraft than say the French?

The French, for instance, were very up on their air industry (Dassault comes to mind, with a series of very successful planes) as opposed to Germany that hasn’t really produced anything domestically.

That’s just how the game was always designed, Russia/Germany and the USSR were the main nations in the game and when other trees were added like Japan and Italy they were not remotely equal or competitive to these nations, you didn’t really get event vehicles or new tech and you’d kinda just play those on the side, never first.

Only at some point Russia became the favored ground nation and US the favored air nations and since then Germany has been in a pretty shitty situation where the best Leopards have gone to Sweden for the last years, their airforce has been pretty lacking and this trend is continuing with even more Leopards going to Italy with the 2A7 and France as well, now the Dutch F-16s going to France and Germany seems to further and further get devalued.

Matchmaking also always was balanced around major nations and minor nations were supporting, first Japan and Italy for axis and UK for US… but because they failed to balance it with repeated bad updates they just let go and made it a free for all thing.

It’s only now with more modern tech that some of the minor nations are able to stand out and not rely on copy paste vehicles as much at top tier.

Not saying there should be a disparity, there just always has been.

Well…the ICE does deserve a lower BR in its current state, without access to 120B, 9L-I, AGM-65G and its targeting pods makes it kinda ridiculous to stay at 12.7. Especially when you notice that Britain’s Tornado gots 120B and stays at the very same BR, not to mention that Tornadoes might actually be better in BVR due to its high-speed flight performance. For the phantom? Bruh, I would rather fly a MiG-23ML.
My suggestion is, increase the highest BR of air RB to 13.3. Then, either maintain the current setup of the F-4F ICE and lower its BR to 12.3, or give it 120B and 9L-I and stay at 12.7.
BTW, the Germans really needed a TRUE top-tier aircraft. If it were me i’d give ICE with access to IRIS-T and make it 13.0/13.3. Note: it might sound too OP at first, but when you consider that it has no HMD, phantom flight performance sucks (and in turn limits the BVR capability of the jet), kinda acceptable, right? Just nerf the anti-flare if needed, common practice

just remove BR and make brackets like sim match,

No I know, just unfortunately that’s what is going to happen with German Air until we see the advent of Eurocanards. Unless of course, a F/A-18 from switzerland or Canada turns up, but I’d hold my breath on that one

casually forgets to mention that the F-4F has a better turning performance than the Tornado

Also, in case you didn’t know, you can blame the German Government for trying to stick with APG-65 to the bitter end, rather than, well, upgrading.

Er… no, that’s not how it works - the Phantom goes reasonably fast - that’s all that matters when it comes to slinging BVR missiles. So actually you one up the Sea Harrier, the AV-8B, and anyway, you outturn a Tornado. Reasonably easily too. You’ve got those advantages for now.

Because the moment that that gets done every man and his dog will complain that somehow the IRIS-T is (justifiably) underpowered, and then you’re stuck in limbo with a missile that’s way worse than it should be.

No I know, just unfortunately that’s what is going to happen with German Air until we see the advent of Eurocanards. Unless of course, a F/A-18 from switzerland or Canada turns up, but I’d hold my breath on that one.

Which is why they could have just gotten the F-16 from the Dutch instead of some crusty goddamn Phantom lol.