The problem with PUMA at 10.0 in 2024

So i think im not the only person who has played the 10.0 PUMA after the addition of all those “funny” internal modules and has come to the conclusion that this light tank sucks utter balls in every single regard.

The issue with PUMA after last big update, that being Seek and Destroy, is that not only is it massively overtiered it is also ill-armed to deal with the tanks around its battle rating and due to making every single map in every single update smaller and smaller, getting rid of flanking options, its extremely common for frontal engagements being the only way to deal with enemy tanks.

Recent update has given Israel a very nice and important light tank in form of the Namer 30, which not only has a pretty great gun depression, relatively hard to hit from distance turret and pretty good chance of bouncing rounds when angled down but also most importantly it has access to SPIKE ATGMs.
This make the Namer be able to both serve as its initial role of scouting vehicle but also let it be able to engage tanks frontally if the map or situation doesnt show a better alternative.

PUMA lacks this and is in every single regard a worse tank.
I know back in the “ye olden days” PUMA used to be incredibly strong due to the low BR it was assigned to at first, but that is very much in the past.
Since theres now so many new vehicles, so many new premiums around 10.0-11.3 BR, PUMA has quickly become obscured due to lackluster armaments and now also lackluster defense.

Before talking about the issue of its lack of weapons to deal with tanks in a TANK game, id like to quickly adress the argument that ive seen said so often its starting to give me a headache.

Namely the “PUMA might not have ATGMs but atleast its very survivable, you have unmanned turret so you can just pop out of cover and then back into cover”…
This is just completely wrong and is definitely coming from people that either havent played the PUMA recently or havent played the PUMA at all and are going only off of their experience of fighting it. PUMA in the last update has been made into probably the most fragile light tank in the entire game, one other user referred to it as a “repair simulator” and hes/shes completely right.
Even if you peak out of cover, your turret is the massive and any hit anywhere to it will either make your gun non-functional or will blow up your ammunition which funnily enough now automatically has a chance to blow off both your tracks through magical quantum tunneling means. This means that if you get hit by any caliber gun thats above .50cal you will either be crippled or you wont be able to move and so are a dead fish in the water.
Your crewmembers are packed closely together so a round that kills one of them will most often than not kill second person as well making you instantly die. The added FCS and autoloader modules act solely as an another way to completely cripple the tank and make no sense to be added into the game when 95% of all the vehicles like tanks for example lack it.

As for the armaments, the 30mm autocannon is simply too slow at doing any real damage unless you get lucky. Frontally its worthless against most MBTs (saying “shoot drivers hatch of a T80” at the range of 250-400+ meters is just stupid) and when it comes to shooting the sides of tanks if you dont kill a tank in the first 3 shots (because magically the autoloader of a t72 absorbs the dart rounds, or the K1 ERA thats 10mm thick somehow absorbs a round with 100+mm of flat pen at the range 500m) the chances are pretty good that the tank is just gonna shoot back and kill you instantly, or cripple you enough that you cant escape and die to the second shot.
The implementation of AHEAD ammunition “kind of” made it be somewhat better at killing helicopters but in all honesty, i went back to using darts to kill helicopters due to the higher muzzle velocity and also because incase my ammo gets blown out, which it will, id rather have <200 rounds of APFSDS than <100 rounds of APFSDS and <100 rounds of AHEAD.

The tank is simply too fragile at a BR where it cant engage things effectively and can be killed in either one or two shots from an MBT it cant even attempt to flank due to every map being flatter, smaller map offering 0 flanking routes and punishing any other behaviour than apebrawling in the center.

THE FIX:

The way to fix PUMA isnt even that hard to implement. Give PUMA its historical MELLS (Spikes) ATGM launcher so that it can atleast engage MBTs from all angles (AND I FUCKIN BEG PLEASE DONT GIVE IT 2 SPIKES ONLY THINKING THAT IS ENOUGH) or if youre still stingy about adding spikes for some reason despite the fact theres literally light tanks like Vilkas, Namer or Freccia in the game, lower the battlerating of the PUMA down to 9.3

Currently playing PUMA is akin to trying to wipe my ass with sand paper after taking a dump, it just barely gets the job done while being a pain in everyones ass.

11 Likes

I agree, we should get a 10.7 PUMA with SPIKE missiles.

3 Likes

10.3 would be better otherwise it’d just be a directly worse KF41 since it would have worse mobility and wouldn’t have the StrikeShield APS maybe it could be 10.7 if they give it MUSS 2.0 which would actually affect modern ATGMs and make it immune to almost every heli as it stands all MUSS 1.0 does is make the IFV easier to spot

5 Likes

If it would get its MELLS spikes, it should be at the same BR as the Namer 30, that being 10.3.
The KF41 which is pretty much a PUMA with spikes is honestly overtiered at 10.7 and should go down to 10.3, the APS it gets is rather worthless and the only thing separating it and puma is honestly just the ability to use spikes.

Plus we have Freccia at 10.0, with 8 SPIKEs, Vilkas at 10.3 with 4, Namer 30 at 10.3 with 4, the chinese QN506 with its weird missiles at 10.0 …
It would only be correct to move both KF41 and the PUMA with spikes to 10.3 and keep it there

8 Likes

That has reminded me of something, the MUSS should honestly be a modification you can turn off if you dont want it, since right now it just makes you easier to spot and ive died countless of times to t80s and t72s HE shells hitting the top of the MUSS and instantly overpressuring the entire vehicle.

2 Likes

Pls, its Puma, Not PUMA, its just Gaijin which had Caps lock active wheb writing the name

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The issue with KF-41 and SPIKE Puma below 10.7, is you pretty much cement worse vehicles remaining 10.0 that people argue are OP.
10.7 is a good BR for them, especially since there are still a number of under-BR’d light vehicles [Looking at M24 that evaded going up for so long].

And SPIKE missiles, along with all other F&F IR missiles, can be further improved in guidance over time.

Both Puma and KF41 are among the fastest IFVs in the game, obviously both superior to Namer 30 in protection and speed.

So yeah, there’s no reason to reduce the BRs of effective vehicles when fixing their bugs and inaccuracies is more effective.


You were saying? also it doesnt matter if you call it PUMA, Puma, pUmA or anything else, the point still stands

The only redeeming factor it had was that it was survivable and difficult to kill with a bad gun, now it lost the survivability and still has a bad gun.

2 Likes

The issue with KF-41 and SPIKE Puma below 10.7, is you pretty much cement worse vehicles remaining 10.0 that people argue are OP.

this doesnt mean anything.

10.7 is a good BR for them, especially since there are still a number of under-BR’d light vehicles

it really isnt, 10.7 for essentially a 9.3 vehicle with FnF missiles is not a good BR, especially since there literally 3 to 4 other examples of vehicles that have spikes be at a lower BR than 10.7

Both Puma and KF41 are among the fastest IFVs in the game, obviously both superior to Namer 30 in protection and speed.

Except they arent, they are fast sure, but arent faster than an average MBT like abrams or T80s. The generally fastest IFVs ingame are those with wheels, like Radkampfwagen 90, Type 16, and similar.
And if you had spent a second of reading what i wrote instead of going off of the title alone youd notice that ive listed several reasons why the Namer is superior to a PUMA.

*Also also, since youve made me realize something with the “what other people call OP” thingy, PUMA should not be at the same BR as russian massively undertiered BMP2M with its 8 tandem beam riding missiles and a very quick firing APFSDS cannon nor at the same BR as a goddamn 2S38 with its extremely overperforming gun that can kill MBTs from front, has now essentially unlimited rounds in its first stage magazine and can engage planes and helicopters that are up to ~5km range away from the battlefield with HE-VT that has whole 6 meters of proximity distance

4 Likes

there is even a suggestion for this

2 Likes

it literally doesnt matter what you think, stop being a child

9.3? lol Begleit is 9.3, where it’s perfectly balanced, and is significantly worse in armor and gun than Puma.

There is only 1 example of SPIKE missiles being on a BMP-2M/Puma speed or faster platform with similar protection against HEAT munitions as PUMA and Namer 30… KF-41.
Namer 30 is significantly slower, thus worse. Namer 30 would have to be moved to 10.0 to make room for KF-41 and Puma with SPIKEs, which means BMP-2M and M3A3 would have to be moved to 9.7 since those are worse than Namer 30.

No tech tree should have OP vehicles after all.

Maybe if you read my posts instead of making assumptions everyone on the forum doesn’t read, you wouldn’t have made this post to begin with.

Oh, and 2S38 would remain 10.0 if a SPIKE Puma was made 10.3, cause there’d be no room for balance.

Someone could come in and assume your ultimate goal is to make sure 2S38 remains 10.0 and BMP-2M drops to 9.7 in order for them to be balanced with KF-41 and SPIKE Puma in mind… with you bringing up 2S38; I ain’t gonna assume that, just telling you what’s possible.

And bringing up SPAA capabilities for IFVs is silly since they’re not and should never be balanced based on that, otherwise 2S38 drops to 9.7 from its SPAA capabilities and hopefully no one here wants that.

wow… just wow…

3 Likes

I’m convinced you have absolutely no clue what you’re talking about

3 Likes

no likes is crazy

imagine relying on the validation of others…
crazy world

1 Like

I mean it makes sense because

Yet multiple people agreed about what i think

It is pretty much a worse a puma with spikes.

I have noticed it’s much more fragile. I have been waiting for it to receive it’s spikes.