Helicopter munitions also evolved in the past year or so, now with plethora of nations/helicopters having 16 missiles at their disposal.
32x missiles seems a lot, but when your enemies can shit out 16 missiles every minute or so, your stock is going down very soon.
True though that’s within a span of a good minute or two. And then time to rearm and resupply, all while assuming they don’t die trying and you don’t use any of your smoke grenades or hard cover.
Also most other top tier SPAAs have two launchers of 8x missiles, meaning 8x2x2 = 32 missiles.
The original pantsir only had 12x2 (24 missiles) but the new one could use the 8x regular (x2) and 16x anti-munition (x2), totalling 48 missiles… not to mention the guns, mobility, and smoke grenades.
Whatever you’re saying about ammo depletion affects the other top tier SPAAs just as much, if not more.
I mean, if we assume they can die trying to resupply on their helipad, I think it’s fair to assume you can also die from some spawn rusher looking for some easy free AA kills.
You can save yourself with some smokes or hard cover, but then he could just target your team instead with missiles that you’re supposed to intercept.
Oh yeah, those things spamming 32 missiles is actually quite funny to see in game.
Even if you hide yourself well from the air, all that noise and smoke trails will attract vultures looking for their next easy kill.
Sure thing, I’m not defending Pantsir here, just trying to say that AAs are very quick to burn off all of their missile stocks.
Sorry. You may have misunderstood what I meant.
If the SPAA can intervene (the Pantsirs to be more specific), we’re assuming they won’t die in the process of launching their munitions by ballooning too high, or not launcing them in the first place because of the lack of visibility.
Yes, though the benefit of smokes is that you can still keep shooting the helicopter.
Yes.
Ah ok.
If we’re just talking about SPAA in general, I’m not really surprised that they aren’t as powerful as aircraft / helis at taking out aircraft / helis.
SPAA cost a lot less SP after all.
They should be more prone to ARH missiles when ballooning, but I consider that to be an outside factor in this engagement, just like with spawn rushers in the case of AAs.
Would you need to move after smoking as missiles have IOG ?
True.
I usually respond to people that think S1 is some kind of a “world ender” AA that renders helicopters useless, which isn’t really the case.
That’s true but I was going more on the lines of that being relatively easy free food for SACLOS SPAAs to deal with.
IOG isn’t accurate. They just help with positioning the seeker such that when the missile is in terminal phase, the enemy target is within FOV / gimbal limit of the IR / TV / Laser seeker.
If you lose lock at the last ~2 secs of guidance maybe the deviation won’t be as brutal, but anything beyond that and your missiles will be defeated by smoke.
The Apache E doesn’t get access to IR + IOG + GNSS nor Laser + IOG + GNSS so smoke is a direct counter.
The Z-10ME gets access to IR + IOG + GNSS missiles via the CM-502KGs, which after losing lock, generally heads towards the last known position / tries reacquiring if new target is found and within FOV / Gimbal limit. Unfortunately, the CM-502KGs are extremely slow, arch, and thus pretty easy to intercept.
Well, it’s definitely very strong in the right hands.
The best Pantsir players find it difficult to deal with great plane pilots in a 1v1, but they can be extremely difficult to deal with in any heli other than the Mi-28NM.
Even with fire and forgets, unless you have a good map, he can kill you if you accidentally stay out of cover for too long while trying to find / launch IR missiles at it, or don’t fire enough of them in one volley for it to not get overwhelmed through a snowballing effect ( The new pantsir won’t really have that issue due to smokes).
IOG or GNSS don’t work on IR AGM in any way.
Really?
I thought IR hammers went through smoke instead of deviating away into nothing.
I’m pretty sure CM-502KGs go into smoke too
They haven’t implemented it yet. Probably due balance reasons. Plus laser weapons lose any GNSS/IOG after you turn on laser.
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/SZaDMRsrjGL5
Your stupid Kh-38 also has the largest payload so while IOG drift may affect it. The splash damage is sufficient especially when dealing with SPAAGs and SAMS.
easily intercepted by pantsir
not only that, i can deal or threaten the plane and the AGM at the same time. plus it can deal with DIRCM helicopter ie KA-52
You’re missing the core issue here. This is not about whether Pantsir is a “world ender” or if helicopters can still operate. That’s a completely different discussion.
The actual problem is that only Russia has access to SPAA systems that can reliably intercept incoming munitions. From BR 10.7 onward with the 2S6 and especially at 12.0 with the Pantsir, Russia gets a defensive capability that no other nation has. These systems don’t just engage aircraft—they can actively neutralize incoming missiles, which is a massive advantage.
Calling things like ballooning or radar exposure “outside factors” doesn’t really work, because those are core gameplay mechanics. Engagement profiles, visibility, missile guidance—these are fundamental parts of how SPAA and CAS interact. If you dismiss those, you’d also have to dismiss things like terrain masking or smoke, which obviously doesn’t make sense.
The real imbalance is the interception capability itself. Other SPAAs can shoot aircraft, but they cannot reliably intercept incoming missiles. Russian systems can do both. That’s not just a small edge, it’s a major survivability multiplier.
What makes it worse is accessibility. Russian players effectively get this capability without meaningful trade-offs. It doesn’t require sacrificing your lineup, and there is no equivalent system on the other side. So it becomes a constant advantage present in almost every match.
So the argument that “Pantsir isn’t overpowered because helicopters can still function” completely misses the point. The issue isn’t whether CAS can sometimes survive—the issue is that one nation has a unique defensive mechanic that others simply don’t have.
There are only two logical solutions: either give other nations comparable systems to create parity, or reduce the interception capability of Pantsir and similar systems to bring them in line. Right now, the problem is not exaggeration—it’s that a single nation has exclusive access to a capability that directly impacts balance.
I agree with your point but the issue that we have right now, is that there simply aren’t any comparable system for the majority of other nations. Gaijin will have to try and find a way to asymmetrically balance top tier.
Imma guess that Gaijin has already started experimenting with this very thing in the form of target over saturation. Aka giving more planes and nations small caliber weaponry like the Spice 250. This patch they also removed the Mach limit for the GBU39s.
It’s just sad that this is a very slow progress…
And Gaijin still believe that ItO ans Pantsir can stay in same BR while :
Even 2s6 is better than Ito, that should be 11.0 and not 12.0 …
Careful, saying ITO-90M should be lowered in BR is apparently a bad take according to some.
ITO-90M should be 11.7 though.
For purely aerial threats ?
Not in the slightest.
The only benefits the Tungy has over ITO are its mobility and guns.
Don’t get me wrong, guns and mobility is quite useful, but ITO’s VT1 missiles are significantly better.
Only if you look at pure stats of missiles, but planes are faster and more agile at 12.0-13.0 than at 10.7-11.7 so in game 2s6 is better than Ito.
Does 2s6 have to counter FnF missiles launched at 15km by Mi28 ans Apaches ? Nope, only slow mavericks that even Ito has some difficulties to see and track.
Ok, so there’s a difference between saying “2S6 is better than ITO” and “2S6 is better than ITO BR-FOR-BR”.
ITO is better in most cases (other than at close range or against ground targets, where guns and the much better mobility are more important)
2S6 may be better BR-for-BR, which I could agree with.
TBF ITO 90M should be 11.7 anyways.