The MI28NM problem

Game Discussion Realistic Battle
1133

👍

Well I think it depends.
Helis are best on maps where there are mountains for cover (and balloon to see more of the map), no foliage to mess with LOS, and a ground map that is mostly flat and without any buildings.

Some great heli maps: Campania (Mountains, little to no cover at the spawns / majority of the map), Arctic Base (Small hills for cover, but relatively flat map, no foliage, and with no cover for tanks), Red Desert (Mountains, little to no cover for tanks, no foliage), 38th Parallel (No LOS for SPAAs at their spawn, side-aspect engagements), etc…

Spaas become a lot more annoying / deadly to deal with on maps where there is a lot of foliage, no mountains, and plenty of cover for tanks and SPAAs (whether it be hills or buildings).
Think about Sweden, Ardennes, Alaska, Sun City, etc…

On those maps, you need to balloon to have LOS on most tanks, or travel vast distances to get a side-aspect view on them (which still may be covered by buildings).
However, since you need to balloon, you must take care of SACLOS missiles before you can deal with tanks in most occasions.
Even mountain-side Mozdok is abysmal for helis since trees in Lower quality settings disappear far away, so SPAAs can see you before you can see them.
Pantsir missile will make short work of any attempts, since you not only have to rise over the trees (while they start shooting you), but you also need to acquire them and shoot off your missiles, and then get behind the hill before the missile goes through the trees and hit you.

You could keep destroying the trees in front of you, but this may not be viable on other maps, like Flanders / Ardennes because of how many there are, and staying in one spot isn’t a good idea since you are basically asking to get pre-fired.

Even after you kill SACLOS SPAAs in those situations (not like a smart one would die if they had buildings for cover), ballooning to see enemy tanks would just get you killed by Radar missile SPAAs…

So while I agree with you that bad 12.3 helicopter players would suffer against Radar / SACLOS SPAAs, even good ones can really suffer given a bad map.

Yes but I don’t think it’s worth spending 4 minutes or so of getting into position, shooting, returning back to the helipad, rearming, getting into position, shooting, returning back to helipadd, rearming, getting back into position is a good use of your time and ordnance.
You’d be better off trying to kill the SPAAs as quickly and effeciently as possible, even if it may be more risky.

Like I said above, on some maps you are effectively required to deal with SPAAs first before you can have a chance at taking out MBTs, other than some that may be flanking out in open fields, like C point on Poland, or C point on Alaska.

Yeah.

1 Like
1134

Nope, that’s not how it goes because global stats can easily be taken out of context where as when there’s a common consensus saying that hellfires suck at top tier, that has more value.

“Hellfires are sadly a copypaste slop and people flocking to other, more unique weaponry is nothing unexpected.”

1135

you missed the best one, Sands of Sani

also AA missiles can fly through trees without losing guidance pretty reliably

1 Like
1136

People who say hellfire is good enough or Vikhr is not good enough while don’t have any heli their opinion have no value at the begin with.

1 Like
1137

How come?
I believe JAGMs are faster than LMURs, and possibly more maneuverable.

Not sure. This might be a bug or map issue.
I had that be an issue on some cases, but you can definitely lock onto any heli:

@MotorolaCRO
Flarakrad had no chance:

1 Like
1138

FV4005 would like a word. After all - BIG warhead must mean that nothing should survive, right?

The desperation of RU mains is telling. Defending the indefensible…

1 Like
1139

Vikhirs do less damage to MBTs, often requiring manual guidance to hull roof / turret roof to overpressure (one-shot kill). This isn’t a problem with Hellfires, since they have 1200mm of penetration, and ~9kg of TNT equivalence.
However, Hellfires (although you get 16 of them instead of just 12 Vikhirs) cannot kill helicopters nearly as easily, let alone hit accelerating targets (this includes tanks) outside of ~5/6km. Vikhirs can usually hit / stay on-target pretty consistently within 7/8km.
In that sense, I’d almost always rather have the range, proxy, speed, and reliability of Vikhirs over 16 inconsistent missiles at top tier.
Hellfires at ~10.3-11.0 are pretty good, though, since SPAAs are more basic at those BRs and so you can afford to be closer (though Strelas are still a problem).

1140

I only defend common sense but it died in this thread. Omg 25 kg warhead kills in 1 shot what is this

1 Like
1141

because even if you know it was launched you cant hide to to it actually following a lofting top attack flight profile, with JAGM its pretty easy to break LOS to the missile on most maps

its a consequence of weather and stupidly low thermal signature of mi28, other helis tend to be a bit easier to lock on to, but if there is a cloud or fog anywhere near an mi28 you probably wont get a lock

1142

JAGMs also loft though?

Probably, though same applies to the Mi-28NM. (I’ve had friends complain about this too while they were using it.)
The only difference is that it’s easier to guide Vikhirs without IRST lock than SAL JAGMs.

1143

nowhere near as much making it easier to break LOS, with LMUR it impacts from ~60 degree angle so you need a really tall and steep cliff to hide behind while its closer to 20-30 degrees for JAGM

im pretty sure mi28 gets additional thermal signature reduction compared to most helicopters, ive had a much harder time locking it compared to others, especially ah64 and similar ones

1144

You’re right, maps definitely play a role in vehicle’s usability which is something I overlooked.

It’s also worth seeing how exposed to ground units AAs are on those, bad-for-helicopter maps.

Depends where that position is, is it close or far, far away from your helipad ?
In your example you rearmed twice which totals up to 48 JAGMs and having that amount of guided ordnance going towards the battlefield is simply ridiculous.

As you said, a smart AA player is very hard to kill if he has cover around, so focusing on killing him instead of just draining all his missiles doesn’t seem like an effective tactic.

1 Like
1145

I guess so.
Though IR JAGM can kill Mi-28NM despite it having LDIRCM xD

Not sure about that. All the 12.3 Helis have HIRSS to disperse heat.

1146

not reliably, I know because ive shot a few at them and gotten nothing

maybe? idk ive just had a lot more problems locking mi28 than most other helis

at least for ah65e it is modeled visually but you dont get a modification for it and I dont know if it actually lowers thermal signature

1147

it also common sense that penetration into crew compartment should kill tanks, no? yet JAGM PARS Spike in this game that use shaped charge do little to no damage even after penetration unless hit very specific spot.

1148

Maybe not reliably, but still funny that it happens nonetheless.

I’m pretty sure AH-64E gets HIRSS fully functional in-game.

1149

I’ve seen the common consensus that Leclercs are dogshit while browsing their thread, but I guess that isn’t exactly the case. Trusting that is wild.

I don’t really see how’s that not unexpected.
You on the other hand tried to claim that less games = worse vehicle, which would imply Leclercs are absolutely superior to NL Leopards. Also, you tried to claim that less games = better stats, which would imply NL Leopards have even better stats than they should, which would mean they’re even more inferior to Leclercs than what’s shown.

You lost your thought long time ago and using your logic we can safely assume Leclercs deserve to be around a full BR above 2A6, which is absolutely amazing.

1150

Sure, they definitely have their positives, never claimed otherwise.

1151

👍

That’s true, though I think maps like Ardennes and Flanders are typically fine in that regard. Maybe maps like Fields of Normandy would be more of an issue.

Depends on the map again, I guess.
Some maps you need to spend a minute or so getting into a relevant position, some maps you can take off and already start shooting (like Fields of Poland / Mozdok)

Yes, it is ridiculous, though the overall effectiveness of that is questionable. I think 16 well-timed / well-placed JAGMs can do just as well (or if not more) than the barrage of 48 JAGMs if we talk about time effeciency.

You can deplete them of all their munitions but at some point it’s just not even worth it. Nobody is dying in the first couple of barrages. Maybe even by the time you disarm them, more SPAAs can spawn in as well 😅

It’s basically the only thing you can really do on some maps. There is little to nowhere you can go where they won’t see you trying to kill MBTs. Think about Sweden, for example.
Draining his missiles won’t happen if they know to just take cover, but you need to get multiple missiles off on him for that to work in the first place, but then you’d be dead trying.

1 Like
1152

Yes, though I think the negatives of hellfires (especially at top tier) outweigh their positives, unlike Vikhirs.
So I think Vikhirs are (in general) better at AT duties than Hellfires (at least at top tier).

It’s not even just in GRB where they are better, but good Kamov / Mi-28NM players in competitive spaces are a lot more dangerous than good hellfire players.
You can’t depend on smoke to take cover from Vikhirs, unlike hellfires.
Good Pantsir players struggle to kill good Kamov / Mi-28NM players way more than good Apache / Viper players.


1 Like