Why is it so hard to say it ? An Abrams with worse depression, turret armor and round is flat out the worst top tier MBT.
People will argue about it, but Leclerc has less survivability than HSTVL without the scouting mechanic, same reload as Ariete and Abrams but both have 4 crew members (more survivability) and more penetration for what is essentially the same mobility.
Besides the reload going from 6 to 5 seconds (along Ariete and Abrams), Leclercs have only received nerfs ever since Leclerc S1 was released 5 years ago.
So needless to say they have been grossly powercrept and are now anything but competitive.
Any Leopard 2A5 and above beats it. Abrams beat it. Merkavas, Chinese MBTs and T-series MBTs all have much better armor and better penetration, along, for some, better thermals and/or mobility.
Currently, only Ariete is arguably worse than the Leclercs.
It might not be that much worse than other MBTs because of how top tier works (first to shoot usually wins), but it’s still objectively either the worst or second worst MBT in the game as of right now.
And for some reason it’s very difficult for people to say that lol
If we can agree that Ariete having better thermals, better penetration and 4 crew members means it’s better than Leclerc, then I guess the 2 worst MBTs in the game are Challengers then Leclercs.
Well, the problem I have with the Ariete is that its turret cheeks can’t even stop the weakest top tier APFSDS shells, unlike the Leclerc, which can stop at least ~570mm of pen.
Even if you do pen the Leclerc Turret cheeks, you won’t stop them from shooting back (since each side has the ability to shoot – Commander on one side and gunner on the other), unlike the Ariete, where you can just shoot left cheek and kill both gunner and commander in one go.
The Ariete (although having better gun depression and shell) has worse survivability because it doesn’t get funny fuel tanks at the front, and has no safe ammo stowage.
In some cases the gun depression and pen is more useful, but in others the ability to tank turret shots from Russian / Chinese / British / Ukrainian APFSDS and sometimes ricochet shots via UFP / absorb them via fuel tank is underrated.
Leclerc is also smaller than Ariete from what I remember, so that’s a bonus I guess.
I think T-84 and VT4A1 are also pretty bad
In most CQC 1v1 situations, Leclerc is better than T-80BVM and especially T-90M too, and arguably the T-84 and ZTZ99A as well.
At this point why even have this thread?
It is obviously a problem, in many ways that is.
Any person challenging that statement is probably challenged themselves in one way or another.
Don’t waste your time arguing with them.
Two ways to deal with it:
1)Stop playing toptier whatsoever. We’re pretty close to rusia vs rusia only toptier matches anyway.
2)Stop playing the game. Which wouldn’t work, since we all know why, there’s no unified front if task is continuous, but it’s much better than losing nerve cells on meta abusers. (which are, for some reason, always the meta, but we all know why)
It also doesn’t get turret baskets (French bias confirmed).
2A7 is better straight up, no questions about it.
I’d say something like SEP is slightly better than Leclercs (and thus 2A6 as well).
Manually guided missiles are becoming less and less useful by each update, so I’d say Ka-50 might actually be a better choice nowadays than Ka-52, solely because of it’s BR.
Hellfire slingers were a pain at one point in the past, just look at G-LYNX before where it was clubbing on IR SAMs. Helicopters need decompression, just like tanks.
I think 64E is more than fine with it’s 16x JAGMs that can overwhelm and dry out multiple AAs out of their missiles in like a minute. Giving them any more killing potential would make it incredibly busted.
I’m glad France received Leopards, so now we can gauge the skill level of French players against German ones, and we can also see how Leclercs compare to Leopards. They seem to be pretty on par all things considered.
Yeah there is plenty, it’s basically the equivalent of Spike, it works the same, but it’s mostly made to target structures and infantry because of its high explosive warhead. But how it works in-game is completely fictitious, I don’t think it can lock targets the way it does in game.
Most traditional IR weapons in game work fairly accurate like they do in real life.
As far I know, Spike and LMUR work completely different to everything we got in game. They are NLOS IIR missiles and are meant to be used (and guided) in a completely different way to how they work in game. If they did, they would be many times stronger than they currently are.
I’m asking if LOBL is accurate for LMUR and to an extent Spikes.
I haven’t seen a single person say that they don’t play it or want to get it because it isn’t unique, it’s because it sucks. I’m thinking of making a poll here as well to get a better demographic but it’d be no shock if people says the same thing
If there was a Ka52 in the US TT, I wouldn’t be surprised if people play it more than the 64D, why? because there’s there’s no trade off and it does everything the 64D can do and better by a large margin.
I think SEP is generally better than 2A6, but there is quite a significant difference between any of the Leclercs and the 11.7 / 12.0 Abrams.
All the Leclercs should be 0.3 BR lower than the 11.7 / 12.0 Abrams – at least the 12.0 ones.
Mostly agree, though SAL can still be more useful than IR just because you can switch targets, have more accuracy, and start causing interceptions against Multi-SAMs without needing to first expose yourself.
In general, yes.
Though if we decompress helis and SPAA, Ka-52 would still be very strong.
Not really sure what you mean here?
If you mean that they were very problamatic ( were a pain to deal, not to use), then I agree with you.
No reason why the XM975 / Flarakpanzer 1 had to deal with 16x Hellfires + Great Thermals and Zoom + IRST Lock at 10.3 with the YAH-64. Or G-LYNX / Z-19E at 9.7 and 10.3 respectively.
Or the Mi-28A at 10.0 and Ka-50 at 10.7.
Now most hellfire helis are overtiered.
The non-hellfire helis are mostly fine (except most early F&Fs like the Tiger UHT and maybe now the Israeli AH-60)
Agreed.
Yes. My only issues with the AH-64E is that it has little to no useful A2A capabilities (except against helis, in which I’d say it’s the best), and its climb rate / maneuverability is quite lackluster compared to Mi-28NM and Z-10ME.
For Heli launched spikes yes, as it’s a choice between EO, LOAL and LOBL, we only have LOBL in game currently.
The best example of spike is the NLOS model (as opposed to the ERs we have in game), which has 25km range and has the personnel guided mode you mentioned