The MI28NM problem

Game Discussion Realistic Battle
981

My hatred cannot be put into words.
Last match i literally drove halfway on the big aaah version of Fulda only to get yeeted by one of these demons. Like what can you even do? Ignore the entire map and sit in the castle or forest?
The only way that you can possibly fight them is if you spawn a plane with AGM and then yeet them all at him from 10 km, if the 5 BUKs protecting him don’t get to you first.

Oh man, the guy that made the decision to add these missiles, the things i would do. I have some really bad ideas in my head.

6 Likes
982

2A6 is definitely better than Leclerc in various situations so not having it in your lineup is detrimental to you and your chances of success. 2A5 is definitely up there as well.

Helicopters in general aren’t played that much to begin with bar the few exceptions like Ka-52 or German UHT. Both of those had something unique to offer and weren’t just yet another Hellfire slinger found in several other nations at various BRs.

US has two 12.0 helicopters so that splits up the players.
Both of those combined often had 70-100k battles in a month, while 64A (GR) had 200-300k games during a month.

Ka-50 is easily doubling or sometimes even tripling the amount of games that Ka-52 has too.

983

Turret Basket, bigger vertical drive weakspot, weak blowout panels, no spall liner (unless you count the roof which only applies to top attack munitions, no lws. Is there vertical guidance limitation like the abrams or leos, not too sure?

This ain’t 2022, leos have gotten considerably weaker since the addition of detailed modules and it’s extremely easy to counter them.

Both offer someathing of value to the lineup. It’s unique because it has the ability to do a lot of damage in the battlefield. The Apache just can’t do that.

It comes down to mindset. There’s a big difference between people wanting to grind vs wanting a good lineup. Partially it could be because it’s unique but the most likely reason is because not everyone wants to play it.

Again the argument that just because it isn’t unique, people don’t want to play is weak because it’s very surface level. By your logic, you would see a lot less F-16s, Eurofighters, Griphen and etc because other nations has it and at the end of the day it’s just a missile slinger.

It’s a ridiculous thing to say because these aircrafts bring decent CAS options to the table for their respective nation, and you see them all the time in top tier.

You do realize the mi28 also exists right?

Lets take June for example as at the time, we didn’t know the Mi28 was going to get LDIRCM.

the Mi-28NM and Ka52 has a total of 330k battles. The Ka50, had around 736k battles = 1 : 2.23

The 64D and Viper have a total of 104k battles. The Premium apache (both the peten and GR) has 348k battles = 1 : 3.35

Like I said, it’s disproportionate.

Not sure why you’re defending a guy who clearly has little to no experience using hellfires in top tier saying that it’s balanced and okay to use in top tier.

Anyone who has played with them in top tier can easily disprove this and explain how much more difficult it is to be used successfully (when in good conditions) compared to the vikhrs.

1 Like
984

what makes u think an mitl missile cant hit a moving target ? u can literally control the missile like a kamikaze drone irl.

985

You’re late, this issue is already closed.

986

The Mi-28NM is great, we all love being bombed by its air-to-ground missiles while having no way to take it down with our anti-air defenses. The game planners and development team, keep up the good work—strive to create even more powerful Soviet vehicles that can devastate players both mentally and physically, allowing them to dominate the entire Earth in the game. In the future, I suggest adding alien tanks to the battlefield, exclusively matched against Soviet vehicles, while vehicles from other nations are segregated into separate matchmaking for a free-for-all. This way, the noble lineage of Soviet vehicles can be preserved, while ensuring fair competition for vehicles of other countries.

7 Likes
987

Yea, actually a simple checkbox “I don’t want to play with or against soviet trashcans” can solve most if not all current game issues, lol.

2 Likes
988

I fully endorse your proposal.

1 Like
989

I think the biggest issue with the LMURs is just straight up matchmaking. I have strictly played 11.3 US ground despite having everything in the tech tree. I play it as before the last couple of major updates, you could get 11.3, 10.3, and sometimes 11.7/12.0 matches. Now I routinely get 12.0 matches the majority of the time. The other problem is playing the US, the majority of the team is comprised of Clickbaits and AIMs. Once they die 1-2 times they leave, meaning there’s very few people with counters to opposing CAS. I also don’t use the XM975 in my lineup as it’s just outranged by everything and a massive target for the very CAS you are trying to kill. I usually play the LAV-AD and M247 as I find them more reliable. In the event I’m facing something like a Ka-50/52, Mi-28NM, or any helicopter with weaponry that has a range greater than 2 miles, I am entirely useless. I match I had yesterday had 2 Ka-50s and an Mi-28NM just hammering the battlefield and the only person to spawn one of the newer SAM systems was immediately killed on spawn and left the game. I had to jump in my A-7K, fly low across the map, and spam mavericks at those helis just to kill them. I ended up dying to an IRIS system that had been protecting their team’s helicopters. And the other issue is all someone needs to do is get enough spawn points to spawn one of those helicopters, usually within the first 5 minutes of the game, to absolutely dominate. Most people won’t first spawn an SPAA or second spawn for that matter.

2 Likes
990

Leopards have spall liners on the turret sides as well.
LWS just became even more niche than it was before with another batch of highly effective IR missiles added in the last patch.

That thing is still highly competitive when compared to Leclercs.

No, it’s unique because it has unique mechanics, not because it’s strong.
One can exist without the other.

Well, thanks for proving my point Hellfires aren’t as attractive as unique weapon systems that aren’t found in like 80% of the nations in several tiers. Hellfires are actually a bigger copypaste slop than 2A4 or T-72A, which speaks volumes.

I’m glad US finally got something unique when it comes to helicopters, as Hellfires are a years old copypaste slop spammed by majority of nations in the game.

991

To be fair, it’s just as easy taking out the Leclerc’s turret ammo out frontally, if not easier.

992

I agree.
The Leclerc is basically an Abrams with worse gun depression, turret armour, and round… for better turret crew placement, slightly better mobility, and the ability to shoot behind (no prominent NATO hump).

I think 2A6 / Abrams / 2A7 is still generally better in most cases.

People play Kamov because people say it’s good (Russian Bias blah blah blah 10.7 blah blah blah), and because it was (and somewhat still is) actually good, along with the fact that it’s unqiue.

Most Hellfire spamming Helis are overtiered now, whereas before they were undertiered.
(Think about YAH-64 at 10.3, now 11.3 despite having zero countermeasures or AAMs, or AH-64D at 12.0 lol).

US finally doesn’t have to use ~10.7 / 11.0 AGMs at 12.0 anymore.

And I think Apache E is more than powerful enough with how it is currently implemented.
I don’t think there’s really a need to buff the JAGM’s TNT equivalent, otherwise it would certainly be a bit too OP.

993

Why is it so hard to say it ? An Abrams with worse depression, turret armor and round is flat out the worst top tier MBT.
People will argue about it, but Leclerc has less survivability than HSTVL without the scouting mechanic, same reload as Ariete and Abrams but both have 4 crew members (more survivability) and more penetration for what is essentially the same mobility.

Besides the reload going from 6 to 5 seconds (along Ariete and Abrams), Leclercs have only received nerfs ever since Leclerc S1 was released 5 years ago.
So needless to say they have been grossly powercrept and are now anything but competitive.

Any Leopard 2A5 and above beats it. Abrams beat it. Merkavas, Chinese MBTs and T-series MBTs all have much better armor and better penetration, along, for some, better thermals and/or mobility.

Currently, only Ariete is arguably worse than the Leclercs.

It might not be that much worse than other MBTs because of how top tier works (first to shoot usually wins), but it’s still objectively either the worst or second worst MBT in the game as of right now.
And for some reason it’s very difficult for people to say that lol

1 Like
994

I agree with most of what you said, but I don’t think Leclerc is the worst top tier MBT.

It would probably go to the Chally / Ariete / T84

Leclerc is probably on the lower end, but still usable.

1 Like
995

You’re right, I forgot about Challengers.

If we can agree that Ariete having better thermals, better penetration and 4 crew members means it’s better than Leclerc, then I guess the 2 worst MBTs in the game are Challengers then Leclercs.

996

Well, the problem I have with the Ariete is that its turret cheeks can’t even stop the weakest top tier APFSDS shells, unlike the Leclerc, which can stop at least ~570mm of pen.

Even if you do pen the Leclerc Turret cheeks, you won’t stop them from shooting back (since each side has the ability to shoot – Commander on one side and gunner on the other), unlike the Ariete, where you can just shoot left cheek and kill both gunner and commander in one go.

The Ariete (although having better gun depression and shell) has worse survivability because it doesn’t get funny fuel tanks at the front, and has no safe ammo stowage.

In some cases the gun depression and pen is more useful, but in others the ability to tank turret shots from Russian / Chinese / British / Ukrainian APFSDS and sometimes ricochet shots via UFP / absorb them via fuel tank is underrated.

Leclerc is also smaller than Ariete from what I remember, so that’s a bonus I guess.

I think T-84 and VT4A1 are also pretty bad

In most CQC 1v1 situations, Leclerc is better than T-80BVM and especially T-90M too, and arguably the T-84 and ZTZ99A as well.

997

At this point why even have this thread?
It is obviously a problem, in many ways that is.
Any person challenging that statement is probably challenged themselves in one way or another.
Don’t waste your time arguing with them.
Two ways to deal with it:
1)Stop playing toptier whatsoever. We’re pretty close to rusia vs rusia only toptier matches anyway.
2)Stop playing the game. Which wouldn’t work, since we all know why, there’s no unified front if task is continuous, but it’s much better than losing nerve cells on meta abusers. (which are, for some reason, always the meta, but we all know why)

4 Likes
998

The problem is that people still want to play Top Tier with other Nations, but don’t want to deal with the BS.

999

It would be more reasonable to discuss decompression of helicopters and tanks to 14.3

1 Like
1000

And SPAAs / Aircraft too.

Can’t see why the Mi-28NM / AH-64E / Z-10ME can face Flarakrad, and I can’t see why AMX / 11.0 Mangusta or Mi-28N can face IRIS-T / BUK / Pantsir

1 Like