You need to actually get a hit which is why the hellfires suck.
it’s quite funny the only helicopter you have played that does have hellfires also has spikes. You can check any player that has played hellfire-only platforms, vikhr platforms and see a considerable difference in the KD they have. I wonder why?
A tactic that is situational and inconsistent at best? Really, that’s the only good thing you can think of that the hellfire can do over the vikhrs?
Vikhrs on the hand, what does it have over the Hellfires?
intercept spaa missiles
shoot through smoke/foliage
extremely fast
has proxy
can still over pressure
Again, it’s easy to tell who has played the hellfires and who hasn’t.
Correction: How is adding incomplete “what-if” ships losing credibility?
It’s the fact they give them it’s most ideal stats even if it isn’t realistic. Where as with ships that were built, their stats are in accordance to what they’re capable of.
It’s very depressing to see titans like the Yamato, Bismark, Roma,Vanguard getting decimated by a “what-if” battleship. At least the Iowa can hold it’s own.
I’m guessing Gaijin has an entire team dedicated to Russian weaponry and vehicles only, which is where all the bias comes from /j
We need justice for Hellfires, Spikes and PARS all of which have awful lofting profiles, Spikes being the worst of them all, they pretty much should be coming down at a 70° angle but they barely do 30° in game.
For a nation that is just as popular as Russia, I’m curious why the Ka52 is being played 5x more? Does it mean the 64D and Viper is better than the Ka52?
Even the Z-10 which is from a minor nation has more games than the Apache or Viper. What does that tell us? Maybe, just maybe, people who are playing it extremely experienced and good at the game?
Sure as hell dont mean Hellfire is good. In toptier the only real viable way of using them is either A) dump one every X seconds and so that no matter what youll have a missile nearby to deal with threats that appear or B) fire via IOG from cover and then pop up in last X seconds to laser the rest of the way in.
A) is better in general but your kill potential is all over the place and youre not exactly being very sparse on missiles.
B) is safer but much easier to fuck up if you pop up too early or too late
Both are shit with hellfires one way or another because of how slow they are, the hellfires are very easy to intercept, especially if you havent changed heading before release.
Plus popped smokes are a full on miss unless the missile is like a second before impact.
Vikhrs (and for that part all russian beamriding missiles) are not only faster with better speed retention, they are also effectively immune to smokes unless the target has managed to move out of the way fully. Since beamriding missiles fly at a straight line, those 10-15 meters of lost contact via smoke dont matter for a missile whos approximate speed is still anywhere between 600 to 500 m/s
Also notice the rate at which the russian helicopters are picked versus the contemporary apache and AH1Z, both of which are from a major nation.
That alone is somewhat of a indicator. And also, do not forget, Ka52s are (or were) spawned as a first spawn rocket heli rush extremely commonly. Unlike Apaches and Zulu cobras. That doesnt mean that there werent people spawning in them for heli rush but at a way smaller rate than the 52s. And it doesnt take much to figure out why.
So the K/S and K/D will be skewed by some margin by that as well.
Seeing the difference in games between 12.0 RU and US tanks, I don’t think this is true.
Kamov might also be more popular due to offering a different playstyle with Vikhrs and other things, while AH-1Z is just another Hellfire slinger.
The community turning Kamovs into some godlike vehicles also didn’t help.
Instead of having useless conversations here which will have no impact on the game I propose this :
Someone (i can do it by sunday if no-one else does) open a thread with the current top tier situation explained and some proposed fixes that were discussed in this thread on a poll basis. Some of the main points would be :
Do you want the Mi-28 to be moved to 13.0 ?
Do you want NATO Fire and Forget Missiles (eg Spike, JAGM, PARS) to be revised to have their correct angle of attack ?
Alternatively to the point above do you want the LMUR to get a nerfed angle of attack similar to nato atgms ?
Should the LDIRCM found on the Mi-28NM and the AH-64E be remodelled to more closely resemble its real life counterpart (certain angles like upper angle not being covered)
Do you consider the Mi28 OP in its current state ?
Do you consider the AH-64E OP in its current state ?
Do you want the spawnpoint cost raised for Fire and Forget capable Helicopters ?
Would you support IR Guided Brimstones to be added to all Typhoon variants but reducing the count to 6 (similar to other FnF IR missiles carried by planes)
Do you want the Spawn Point Cost for Jets with exclusively anti air weaponry to be reduced ?
etc…
This Might help the devs to see the wishes of the community more clearly. Just my 5cents.
???
I literally told you that that is the most effective way of using them. The have inherent issues of low max speed and low speed retention, where by the time they reach the intended target from medium range distance (4-5km approx.) they have lost a lot of speed. Which increases the probability of being intercepted before a hit on target is possible.
Also why should i “tell [you] what the hellfires should be”??? That wasnt even my part of my argument or critique of what you wrote to begin with…
I literally just said that they arent good.
Listed the reasons (low speed and speed retention).
Given a comparison to vikhrs.
Explained that your picture has more to it than youre trying to argue with.
And ive also added context to why the K/S//K/D of Ka52s might be skewed for said argument.
Right now i just see this as pettiness rather than a rational conversation.
Noticed how I mentioned that you can check a player that has hellfire-only platforms, vikhr platforms and you’ll see a difference in KD.
Where does your stats say that. I told you go look at a player that has both the vikhr platforms and hellfire-only platforms, not to go look at global stats where there are so many factors in play.
Helicopter modifications won’t grind themselves, so you have to do heli rushes anyways and Ka-52 is simply better at that, hence it’s stats would be much less impacted by spam rushing.
So now we’re valuing stats from a single player more than global ones ?
You do realize that plethora of things can influence your single player stats as well ?
Cmon… surely its got nothing to do with the fact that Ka52s damage model has been absolutely bullshit for years, where direct hits with dart wouldnt do any real damage*. Or the fact that losing a tail isnt an instant “spin of death”, OR the fact that its got APDS ammo belt with 0SP cost that can kill tanks from top extremely easily AND has 450 rounds of said ammo belt.
Oh and almost forgot, DIRCM that made it immune to all IR missiles before photo-optical mode has been added… to 3 SPAAs.
Surely yes, it is because every single Ka52 doing helirushes was doing it because of “the mod grind”
You do realize those things would just positively impact the Kamov’s stats ?
When doing heli rushes you’re basically free food for AAs from 8.3 and up, while with Vikhrs you’re often times only being really challenged by top tier AAs ? Picking one way to play that helicopter isn’t hard.
yes, because due to the poor performance of hellfires only more skilled players were still playing those platforms, as indicated by the massive difference in number of matches
and people are also only spawning them on maps that support heli gameplay, and possibly only if they think the other team doesnt have too much AA up
The point is to illustrate that Kamov stats were affected by Helirushing because it has a very solid kit that supports heli rushing.
Its still a suicidal thing to do which explains a lot about the higher deaths. As you yourself have pointed out.
So realistically and rationally, a lot of deaths are not just from your “average” helicopter ATGM gameplay but also from heli rushes. Which skews the K/D and K/S thats being discussed here. Idk do i need to get a red string to make it easier to understand?
