then why did you bring it up
To trap people who don’t understand hypotheticals.
Overpressure is also a completely dumb feature that is a thousand times worse than hull break ever was. HB kept light tanks in check, overpressure does that for both light armoured vehicles, and heavy armoured vehicles - hence a Maus being able to get overpressured by a Sherman HE. It’s a horrific feature, and should be removed and replaced with hull break again.
3 Likes
I’ll keep saying it, but I’d be perfectly happy to see autocannon SPAA’s to have all AP ammunition removed and have their BR’s reduced if necessary to where they can function as effective SPAA. They’re cheap because you’re not suppose to use them as light tanks.
I’d love to see a 7.3 or 7.7 Falcon if that means we also lose the SAP ammo.
Gaijin also need to address vehicle classifications, some SPAA’s should get higher spawn costs.
3 Likes
Lmao
About time i dropped this game (again…) These issues have been there for years now, yet Gaijin just keeps doing worse and worse. Just stop playing and buying their premiums, now that the community has spoken up again, they are doing desperate updates to try and see how they can make their playerbase stay in the game. Im tired of playing the same game from ten years ago… And its all because theres not any real alternative to WT. I wish Gaijin had to actually improve, instead of giving us crumbles of what could be a great game (Ill just go play an MMO lmao at least the grind is better in FFXIV)
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Hull break was handholding for trash players in heavy tanks and MBTs who couldn’t aim. If you sprayed a periscope with MG fire it would instantly kill the tank.
Learn to aim better or use the right ammo for the right target rather than demand Gaijin hold your hand again.
Overpenetration is not a myth, if you shoot a high velocity AP round at thin armor it does not just fall apart from the force of the air being moved by the round.
Which is inherently more realistic. There is no arbitrary level of mass for a tank to be able to take a hit from something and not take damage. Hate to break it to you buddy but you can sit in a 300 ton tank with thin armor or a 35 ton tank with thick armor both of them will explode if they get hit by 155mm artillery ammo.
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This never happened. No tanks have ever been hull broke by MG fire in this game. The most egregious acts of hull break were overpressuring a BMP by a HEAT shell hitting the wooden log on the back - I ask you, what’s worse: that, or me overpressuring an Object 279 with a Oerlikon 35mm HE to the UFP? Better still, how about a single 25mm HE overpressuring my entire VBCI with one shot to the bottom of the middle tire? Or the T-34-85 somehow overpressuring a Maus with a non-pen APHE’s explosive filler?
Why do light tanks deserve so much survivability? You are not supposed to be getting hit - you are fast, small, maneuverable. You deserve anything but ‘aiming for weak spots’. Additionally with light tanks, you don’t have the luxury of ‘choosing your spot’ unless they are A) stationary or B) already disabled. When a light tank is running rings around you at 80kmh with an autocannon spraying your optics, how do you ‘place your shot’?
Why does any military in the world bother investing in MBT’s or other armoured vehicles, when by War Thunder logic, light tanks and IFV’s are supreme. Does it have something to do with real-life hull-down doctrine being inapplicable in WT due to map design? You have two options: either fix the maps, or nerf light tanks to compensate for the unrealistic performance.
We are not talking about 155mm HE anyway - even though there is literal evidence that 183mm HESH to the UFP of a Tiger 2 caused minimal damage.
E: Just so you have a fresh example, a T29 with its 177g of explosive filler just overpressured my fully intact IS-3 by shooting at the thickest part of my gun mantlet, non-penning, but detonating and apparently killing the entire crew.
20mm of roof armour at its weakest point. 4.8mm of explosive penetration from the filler.
…still working as intended?
Hull break’s ‘BS moments’ vs light tanks was infinitely better than EVERY tank having to face more frequent BS like this on a game-by-game basis.
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Wrong. It happened all the time with hull break, you just never experienced it or remembered when you did it to other people.
Hull break was and will forever remain the worst mechanic in the game. Literally all of your problems with overpressure listed below the quote could be fixed tomorrow by making the min threshold for APHE eligibility for overpressure be higher than 140 grams (you can pick up that mass by just grabbing a handful of rice it’s literally nothing). It’s just one single problematic value, rather than an arbitrary mass classification to make some tanks unplayable if they are hit by anything.
Edit:
This tells me you don’t play light armor in game or could be bothered to learn about the survivability onion.
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“it fun if you’re the SPAA” it not a reason to have something so stupidly broken
True.
But Gaijin oversimplifies the interior of most vehicles. Just because the outer layer is thin doesn’t mean the APHE has nothing to fuse off of inside the vehicle.
I’m tired of driving around with aphe loaded (as is normal) only to run into something like an m44 that somehow manages to evade all damage from my shot (save losing 1 crew member) only to return fire and one-tab my tank by hitting the tip of my main gun barrel. They have overpressure, that does not touch the main body of my vehicle, wipe me out.
Many damage models in WT are just broken.
3 Likes
I have played the game for nearly 11 years and not once do I remember MG fire hull breaking any tank whatsoever.
Even still, I would rather have HEI MG rounds be buggy and overkill light tanks than EVERY tank be susceptible to ridiculous overpressure mechanics that allow Italian reserve tanks to overpressure 1950s super heavies.
I have once again, 5 minutes ago, had a Pershing overpressure my IS-3 by hitting the mantlet, non-penning, and having the tiny explosive filler apparently wipe out the whole crew.
This would not happen with hull break.
Hull break kills two birds with one stone:
- Gets rid of god-awful overpressure
- Nerfs light tanks, somewhat unrealistically, but compensated for by how light tanks overperform in game compared to real-life.
Survivability onion doesn’t apply equally to light tanks as heavies and you know it.
2 Likes
I think they meant for top tier, not 8.7.
Yeah, 35mm spaa are kinda busted, but that’s mostly because the API works like a mini nuke rather than the actual capability of the tanks.
its not stupidly Broken they usually have non existent armor and are as tall as a skyscraper
its on a 8.7 base would be useless in top tier with actual anti air with missiles
No tank in the history of warfare was designed to be operated with a mouse and keyboard while looking over cover from a third person view, yet here we are. You can fire your main gun and jump off the cliff north of C in Pradesh and your loader will dutifully load the next round without missing a beat even while the tank is in flight.
In real life, correct. WT is not even close to real life.
I will never understand this line of argumentation, I swear.
You spawn into a match and you’re part of a “unit” with 16 different vehicles, all or most of which could be different makes, two of which might be long range SPAAs, and then there’s that one guy in a BT-5. What kind of doctrine prescribes this sort of deployment? I wouldn’t want to be the logistics guy for such a “unit”, let me tell you.
Even stranger, this “unit” has no leader and no orders. There are no platoon and squad commanders, infantry is nowhere to be seen, and there’s no indirect fire anywhere.
Repeat after me: War Thunder is not a milsim. It is a shooter game.
I 100% get that you might wish for it to be a milsim, that’s fair, but as factual evidence it isn’t at the moment and it never has been. Sometimes I feel people discuss an imaginary game when they talk about WT. You want to say that autocannon spam is unfun gameplay wise, sure, say that, but don’t tell me that
Because what’s also never happened is that we’ve had a major tank battle in the American Desert where an American-Soviet-Italian-Swedish force was defending against a German-Israeli-French-Japanese-Chinese force, and yet once again, here we are.
When is the last time you and your team have formed a Keil or Breitkeil combat formation while playing Pz IIs and early Pz IVs?
Tank doctrine, whether at the operational or tactical level, does not exist in WT.
The argument here is that the game is allowed to be unfun and unbalanced simply because it’s not a milsim. I’m not arguing for it to be a milsim. WT is a game that tries to uphold historical relevance provided it isn’t a detriment to gameplay.
Light tanks and autocannon spammers are immensely unfun to play against because they have been introduced with no context to their real life role - they benefit from the unrealistic engagements, and armoured vehicles suffer from it. Why do light tanks get to have fun and nobody else?
You have two things happening here: unfun gameplay, and unrealistic gameplay. Two criteria that warrant adjustments. Saying light tanks/autocannons deserve to be nerfed/adjusted because they create a toxic and unrealistic dynamic does not mean I expect or want WT to become a VR-only milsim with realistic tank formations, chain of command and all of the above.
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No, it is not. The actual argument is that you’re conflating a balance problem with demands for realism. The latter need to be tossed aside because balance is more important, even if it’s fictional (for example, even if it means light tanks get to zoom into the battlefield, because otherwise they would not be playable in a PVP context).
Your complaint about autocannon spam is very fair for 8.7 and above, but not really a thing at top tier. Like all things in WT it has a season and then change will come. In the meantime you can play other brackets (but it is still legitimate to complain about how bad things got when, for example, content creators started spamming their nuke speed runs with these SPAAs). Low tier also arguably is autocannon meta but that is less important imho and then there’s the Coelian at 7.0 but it’s just one vehicle and fairly rare at that.
Your complaints about light tanks are imho misplaced. No one in an EBR is gonna be “immensely dominant” at 7.0. The T29 is much more meta at that BR just to name the first obvious thing that comes to mind.
Complaints about MBTs not playing hull down are also misplaced, this is a shooter game. I’m actually someone who enjoys sniping tbh but most players prefer quick action and CoD stile stuff. The game will keep evolving in that direction and no appeal to realism will prevent that.
No tank in WT plays according to the context of its real life role.
Go watch any tournament, SQB or esports and you will see that no one in there is playing these supposedly hyper dominant light tanks. In fact, the dumbification of maps often affects light tanks just as bad as it does snipers because flanking avenues get closed off and frontal engagements become the norm.
The most competitive vehicles in WT are always those with a good combo of armour, mobility, and RoF/firepower.
Unrealistic, don’t care, can be safely tossed out as a complaint. To make WT gameplay realistic the game would need to be rebuilt from the ground up and would be unrecognisable.
Unfun, well, matter of perspective. I love the game overall but I certainly don’t find all of its BR brackets and game modes fun. I focus on the ones I like.
Have been playing Churchill 7 for the APHE buff and this isn’t my experience but maybe I’m playing the game wrong and doing something different, I can hit center mass and 95% of time the enemy I hit with very bad armor is either dead or about to die. M44s especially because I can immobilize them with MG fire and then finish them with APHE or reload HE.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/13hbcly/old_pics_from_the_hull_break_epidemic/jk54dbd/
Two minutes of searching and I found examples.
You clearly were not paying attention to the BS hull break kills you got from doing no damage/played light armor back when hull break was a thing.
No thanks, the game doesn’t need training wheels. If you can’t aim for something that’ll kill anything (including light armor) reliably you should play things that reload fast or shoot multiple times before reloading.
Overpressure is buggy but it’s vastly superior to hull break. It’s fair to all tanks (big boom make you die), and exhibits generally realistic behavior (minus APHE overpressure, that ammo shouldn’t really be able to do that to begin with).
Except it does though? Just because the “do not be penetrated” layer is absent doesn’t mean you can ignore the multiple other layers above it. If you drive and position badly you’re going to die in light armor or heavy armor; the only difference is how long it takes to happen.
I wouldn’t call success playing the game wrong.
Maybe I’m just unlucky. But more often than not those derp guns are able to return fire.
VFW is another one - the “internal” mechanics (behind the shield) are just far too minimal.