First of all Ducht have no reasons in France TT because Ducht’s military integrates with Bundeswehr if where ducht Leopard should go it should go to Germany not France
In an ideal world, I agree. Netherlands / Germany quite literally operates a shared tank division right?.
I don’t think Germany has any need for a Dutch sub-tree, so preferably they could have added them as German premiums / event vehicles, instead of what we have now.
But, alas, they chose to give France ‘benelux’ with that air tree, so this was inevitable.
Yes, but how many of those tanks get that round? Is it more than 2? If so, now you have more tanks with the same reload, better armor and better rounds. Only 2 tanks have type-10 round. After those 2, my other 2 viable tanks are 11.3 and both(even though there’s 4 11.3, 2 of the 4 are worse than the 2 worth taking) shoot a 480mm penning round. You don’t have to agree, but the cheeks still matter. So agree to disagree
My reload is offset on 50% of my tanks I take to top tier by much less armor and much worse darts than everyone else(except the type 10 obviously).
I get that as you said and I agree, there’s NO redeeming quality of the challys. Which is why I said a 4.75-4.5s reload I am okay with. That makes it better than everyone else’s, but worse than japans.
A lot of your argument is predicated on only comparing it to tkx/type10 it seems. I only have 2 of those variants. Next up is rounds much weaker than what the Chally has. Unless you’re willing to give up to an even worse round to get a faster reload.
To reiterate, I have 4 tanks at 11.3, and 2 at 12.0. That’s it for Japan top tier. 6 total tanks. You have 6 tanks at 11.7 and 2 at 12.0 I think.
If you’re asking for a 4(I think 4.5-.75 as I said). Are you willing to give up your better rounds that all those tanks have, to get it. Since that would put your dart argument on par with mine. Since objectively, a majority of my top tier tanks have darts worse than yours. Not even mentioning that of my 4 at 11.3, 2 are objectively much worse than the other 2 so not worth taking. So my top tier lineup consists of 4 tanks, with 2/4 having weaker darts than you.
They were genuine questions at the top too, I’m not sure what tanks use L30-a1. I am not familiar with the line.
I guess it was Gaijin laziness
Leclerc can be one among the best if they actually fix the armor have put better round on it but gaijin just flat out refuse to do so and throw Leopard to fix the problem instead.
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You’re really confusing me. Only one Chally 2, (3TD) has DM53. Every other Chally 2 (The ones people want RoF buff for) fire L27, which is a worse round than Type-10. Even if these Chally’s had RoF parity with Type 10 / TKX - Japan would still have the better shell.
The difference between DM53 and Type 10 is less meaningfull than the difference between Type 10 and L27A1 lol.
Also the Chally 3 has a 6 second ace reload, so it wouldn’t get buffed to 4 seconds instantly.
Honestly, i feel like the L27A1 gets a lot of crap but imo it is actually pretty good and spalls just about as good as its counterparts, then again i haven’t played many other top tier vehicles, but i really dont think the Challenger 2s need an ammo buff urgently, although they should be among the first to receive an ammo buff when they start to roll around. As for HESH yeah that needs to be entirely reworked, at one point they brok it so bad it would ricochet off some stupid angles (at one point my HESH travelled through a ZSU-27-2, sadly dont think the replay works anymore)
Survivability of the Challenger 2 is pretty good in war thunder, worse by far than it should be but even so, the funny external fuel tanks on the side just absorb spall sometimes, but its a coin toss wether or not it cripples you enough to be unable to return fire.
If im confusing you, my b. I’m not talking about dm53 level stuff. I’m sliding back to your average round which I saw a few times was like 560-580 pen right? Exclude the Chally 3, as the stats listed by you or others in this thread, it’s not SUPER relevant.
I’ll try to clarify.
Your argument is for a 4 second reload right?
How many of your top tier tanks(we’ll say greater than or equal to 11.3 for normalization purposes between your line and mine) would be getting this reload rate buff?
Of my entire top tier line, 2 tanks use type-10 round. Which pens like 610mm right? The other 2 tanks worth taking shoot a 480mm pen round.
So for comparisons sake, since you have 6 tanks at 11-whatever and 2 at 12.0. How many of these tanks are you asking for a buff to 4 seconds on. Because other than my 2 tanks with type-10 round, every tank you have otherwise shoots better than ALL of the rest of my tanks.
Does that make more sense? How many tanks are you asking for a reload buff to? if it’s more than 2, now your lineup has more armor, more pen and same reload.
Maybe it makes sense now? Outside of 2 tanks, Japan has the weakest round at top tier for the rest of its tanks.
Ah, okay, I see your point.
I could sit here and say, I don’t think anyone who values their mental wellbeing would spawn that many Chally 2’s anyway, and i could tell you that variants like 2F / 2TES are borderline unplayable due to their increased weight on an already awful HP/Ton platform, but i can’t see these those answers doing it for you. So for some practical compromises :
- Only give the 4s to BN / 2E, and just tell people to head-canon some thunder lore that these particular crews were given some energy drinks in their rations.
Or - Give the 4s to all, but remove L27 from all the VII Chally 2’s. This would leave them with L26 - Very comparable to JM33, and you could then move these Chally’s down to 11.3.
Or - Give RoF buff to all, keep all their rounds & BR’s, but make it 4.5s, not 4s.
I’m alright with giving the 2, I still think 4.5 is better because it makes you better than the rest, but worse than me, but if we’re keeping it at 2, I could stomach that as balance. Especially since if you lose a crew member it goes up, but mine stays the same and I lose my auto loader often and have to repair it.
if applying it to all the others, I think it would still need more done to go down in BR because while not worlds better, the armor profile IS still better. Couldn’t get 4s across the line, have a round like that and still maintain the armor.
I think the best compromise is buff your 2 12.0 tanks to 4 seconds of that what I takes. The rest stay the same.
To the first part I have nothing else to say other than if I have tanks, I spawn them. I stay till my SP runs out. Whatever nation that may be.
That’s fair, and I am the same in 99% of my lineups.
But when it comes to 2F, and particularly TES / OES… I’d legitimately, unironically rather spawn a Tetrarch lol.
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This whole post brings me no closer to wanting grind Britain lol
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Yeah… unless you’re like… a patriotic Brit… or someone who enjoys being unhappy (So, basically a Brit), there is no point lol.
It’s the only TT i’ve outright had to abandon because it was negatively affecting my mood too much.
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Now that you mention it it now makes sense why I keep finding myself taking breaks from Britain ground grind (and Air grind because i regrettably started that too, at least past spitfires its just mid at best) its just not a great nation in WT (I exclude Naval from this statement because i dont know anything about that).
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It’s really not. Moving to other TT’s was the best thing i ever did. Everyone pans Merkava’s as being junk, and probably rightfully so, but I have been having infinitely more fun playing them than Chally.
Even at lower BR’s, The amount of time’s i’d just watch solid shot do nothing, and people would just tell me ‘thats volumetric jank that effects us all’. The constant pressure to hit ammo everytime. The constant requirement know where the ammo is on everything. I just thought this level of frustration and try-harding to achieve the bare minimum was normal.
But then, I just bought Tigris to grind Italy, and it has these nuclear APHE that one shot everything… And i had a mental moment like… This is really how the other half lives? I’ve been suffering all this time for no reason, when all this stuff, which is actually fun, rewarding and even sometimes relaxing to play, existed the entire time? Abandoning Britain actually made me enjoy WT again.
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That’s why I suffered through US for so long, because I’m not a fan of CAS so much so I only ever grounded the air tree to run CAP against CAS. I suffered through the tanks and premiums for that exact reason lol
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Lmfao honestly this was my exact bit with US except add in other nations. Then I immediately start doing better. Got to Russia me was like “huh, the grass is greener.” Got to Japan and my lawn has never been greener. I know the U.S. does better than Britain in a lot of ways, but as my first tree I share the sentiment having to aim and all that. Then with Russia, my second tree, I just shoot things and they seem to go boom the first time.
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Forreal.
I’m having so many moment’s in Tigris where, i will pen a guy in his cupola, or engine, or somewhere just generally stupid, and it will overpressure / one shot him.
Like bruh. The amount of raw frustration i have experienced with British AP, or Israeli HEAT doing next to nothing, even on perfectly aimed shots, and now here i am, just one-popping people, with the least care for aim imaginable lmao. I have officially converted to the cult of APHE. It’s a different game over here.
I was there when the APDS shattered on every armour plate, never made tracks or other modules more than orange, and made it impossible to do any type of high level plays, and on top of that would never consistently kill ammo for that matter either. I learned that shooting gunners and then using the semi fast reload of some tanks to cripple Panthers and shit, Russian tanks were more of an issue tho, and dont get me started on US heavies, easy to pen, but never any damage.
Japan has been plenty fun, really excited to get my hands on the Type 90 soon ^^