Because you are playing into the single strength the challie has. Also the turret profile of the Challie is like 30% mantlet, why are you not hitting that?
Okay, and my cheeks are a whole wide gap lol. I don’t get your point, part of defense is sometimes turning your turret so you make sure it doesn’t go through the mantlet. That’s not a viable strategy for Japan.
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Tbf, Chally’s armour profile is complete dogwater in game.
The mantlet, which takes up 1/3 of the entire frontal surface area of the turret, is made of butter. Pretty much any shot into that is knocking out 2/4 crew & breach at best, or ammo racking at worst.
Hull down Chally is every bit as easy to knock out as hull down Type-10. If anything, i’d argue Type 10 can play this ridge peaking role better with it’s smaller profile, superior mobility & adjustable suspension.
Chally is just flat out worse than Type-10 in every scenario tbh. Especially in our CQB map pool, where having bad mobility is debilitating, where hull down is rarely possible, and where ROF is king. Chally’s armour profile you seem to rate means nothing, because noone with a brain is shooting it in the cheeks, when the other 75% of the frontal surface area is lol-pen.
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The single strength Japan has, is its reload.
And for the last 5 years, so was the same for the challenger 2. It now no longer has even that
No one with a brain keeps their turret facing directly to the enemy with a hull down position. Since they’re gonna try to put it into your mantlet if they can’t hit your turret ring. You swing your turret to block it, lessons the LOS armor of the turret cheeks, but it’s more than the mantlet armor.
So how do you shoot back without pointing your turret at someone then?
The same way you shoot when someone moves. You turn your turret, don’t be obtuse on purpose.
Strengths that the Type 10 hs vs a hypothetical Challie with 4 sec reload:
-far superior forward mobility
-fast reload for more than 4 shots
-far superior backwards mobility
-better depression if you use the suspension
-better penetration
-better thermals iirc
-commander thermals too iirc.
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Depends on the CR2. BN has very good optics/thermals
BN does as well. I think 2E and 3TD do as well
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This works in Leo’s with their composite packs that extend along the side of the turret bow, but in Chally, the side is so easily lol-penned that even just showing a bit of it, even at a very sharp angle, is doing nothing other than creating a whole new weakspot.
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You could take my gen 3 thermals and make them gen 2, it’s not a huge loss. Nor is it some big gain, it’s worth mentioning only barely.
Better penetration? Chally 3 uses dm53, it’s not even close in performance.
Chally has better crew layout, better turret armor, the better depression means I also have to move in and out of it or it affects my driving performance. Its steps and time I have to take, that a Chally wouldn’t. I’m pretty sure it’s also faster in reverse, and while the top speed isn’t so high, the armor isn’t so high either.
You guys conveniently leave out the positives it has.
I said I’m okay with 4.5 second reload, faster than everyone else, slower than the guy whos armor you absolutely laugh at. There’s no remanding difference between armor with the Chally and type 10, except it’s turret.
Everyone can mostly be penned. But if your thing is you want the fastest reload, the best round. I’m against it. Most maps are not big enough half the time to make huge use of the speed difference.
We’re not gonna agree and that’s fine. The one good trait about Japan is its reload. The speed is barely better than an Abrams. That’s japans defining characteristic. Having to share that with a tank that then has a better round, and better armor is a non starter for me.
0 point trying to compare to the cr3TD. It has a 6 second reload, no spall liner, no armour, no blowout panels. It is easily one of the weakest tanks at top tier.
No it doesn’t
Barely
Challenger 2 is the slowest tank a top tier. One of the largest as well. With nearly no armour at all and l27A1 is below average these days.
Now things like our 4 round ready rack needs to be fixed regardless. But a tank should either have good mobility, good protection or good fire power. Ideally 2. CR2s have none
I have nothing against fixing the 4 round ready rack, it’s silly. And after looking at the darts, you need a better dart.
Chally 3 is unironically worse than 2E / BN. There’s a reason why it’s 11.7 and the other’s 12.0. It pays for this pen with a 6.0s reload - I think people calling for Chally RoF buff are only asking for it on the ones with L30A1 rifle, not L/55.
Everyone sat amongst a pool of charge bins waiting to incinerate them? Lmao.
And Chally has the worst HP/Ton ratio at top tier, meaning he has to spend several seconds more just clunkily lumbering up the ridge
Honestly, i have never played Type-10, so I cannot comment on it specifically. But having played Chally’s, they are, without doubt, the least competitive i have ever felt, in any tank i have ever played in Warthunder. (Even in Merkava, another tank panned for being crap, i feel so much better).
They have enough armour to weigh them down - but not to actually protect them. Charge bins everywhere means almost every pen = death. The mobility is so much worse than everything else at the tier that it feels like playing a WW2 heavy, L27A1 is one of the weakest darts, The ready rack is abysmal, HESH quite literally does nothing but tickle, and probably half a dozen other things i could rattle off.
Point i’m making is, Chally is so awful, that giving it RoF buff wouldn’t make it strong, it would just make it suck ever so marginally less lol.
Realistically I’m in the same position. I don’t have British tree and don’t want it. I have Japan/US ground done, US air and almost Russian ground done. British tree doesn’t interest me, it’ll be Sweden next.
So I’m just looking at stats and comparing. However the one redeeming quality to Japan is its reload. Out of 4 tanks at top tier, only 2 of which being 12.0(there’s other 11.3’s, but they’re a downgrade with no positive to them. Unlike tkx, and the really fast type90(b). You have 2 viable tanks below 12.0.
These 2 shoot a 480mm penning dart. I don’t at all see an equivalence to giving the UK the same reload with more tanks having better ammo and better armor in a hull down position which is how most tanks I fight at top tier for any nation that can effectively be hull down, is what they do.
That’s fair, But i just feel as though Chally has no redeeming qualities - since other machines (Like Type-10) took it’s reload crown away.
Again, people only are asking for RoF buff on L30A1 Chally’s, all of which are limited to L27A1, which is a much worse round than Type-10. I think i have already explained why i think Chally’s cheeks are irrelevant even in hull down so i won’t repeat that.
I would just say though, i do not think most tanks fight hull down at top tier, because most of our maps are urban CQB on level ground. It’s why a tank poorly suited to hilly environments like BVM was dominating for so long - and is still so strong, because most of the maps are catered to benefit tanks with small frontal weakspots - not ridge workers.
Chally and Type10 both ‘suffer’ in this regard, both have butter hulls with huge paper LFP’s that even autocannon’s can tear through. All that really seperates them in this environment is mobility and RoF, both of which T-10 / TKX does better.
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Definitely not the tank of all time no, but by no means bad, and should be more than capable of holding up against T80s and maybe a T90 depending on the challenger at hand. They’re not as amoured, but they can sponge hits and have proven in Ukraine that they’re more reliable than their Russian counterparts. So its not like we’re expecting a God like tank to dominate top tier, but it should be able to compete especially with the later model challengers that gaijin could add but just dont, (Challenger 2 clip for instance), and in any case Britain is a nation in war thunder and its not past gaijin to artificially nerf or buff. Either way all they gotta do in theory is just give the challenger its correct armour values in the numerous bug reports and the chally2+ should be fine (the challenger mk2 and 3 are fine)
stop throwing leopards to everyone and fix their domestic tanks.
either this or nothing.
First of all Ducht have no reasons in France TT because Ducht’s military integrates with Bundeswehr if where ducht Leopard should go it should go to Germany not France