your saying that with a lot of bad faith
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Well you should really try it … OFL can’t pen a T-80 from the front, unlike others. You can try the LFP but will do nothing except hitting the driver, and then you’re dead.
The sides of the mantlet also are very hard to pen, often just knocking out the breech or doing nothing at all.
Pls don’t talk about balance when it’s obviously not.
Despite everything on this subject (and many others) you are one of the only ones to say that it is normal that the Leclerc is not OFL F2. Coincidence? I don’t think so… And it’s not because they criticize the performance of some tanks or because they don’t agree with you that they don’t like French trees, you shouldn’t not all mix… And not wanting to argue and ignore us just shows that you have no arguments. In short, good luck with your Leclerc…
Sorry, but this whole thing is pretty Kafkaesque. The only definitive sources would be:
- The French military, which isn’t going to give the armor value of the MBT they currently use for obvious reason
- KNDS, which isn’t going to release these informations without the approval of the French govt, again for obvious reason
- A crewman leaking the values, but you wouldn’t be able to use it anyway out of fear of getting into legal trouble with the French govt
So there’s literally NOTHING we can give you that could prove that the values used by gaijin are wrong.
Best we can do is give you as much circumstantial evidences that the current values are too low, which frankly we have. I showed that none of the 6 proposed armor upgrades included uparmoring of the UFP and LFP, and Laviduce made a long post on the old forum detailing how the current values were likely wrong.
There’s also this post made a week ago (and ignored) mentioning that the turret is missing ERA, straight from the mouth of a Leclerc tank commander:
So the current armor of the Leclerc is objectively wrong.
[Edit] And I forgot to add, watch this video:
Do you seriously think that it’s perfectly normal that a shell hitting above the track, going parallel to said track and horizontally, leads to the death of all crew members and the complete destruction of the tank ?
The armor and spalling on the Leclerc is busted and needs to be fixed.
Those other top tier tanks aren’t in as bad a position as the Leclerc (Ariete AMV excluded, but it shouldn’t be 11.7 anyway), so this is irrelevant.
Oh, and just FYI: The OFL F2 isn’t even France’s top ammunition. There’s also the OFLE F2 and the SHARD.
… Bruh, you did not just compare the BVM to the Leclerc. The BVM has a fuckload of advantages over the Leclerc. It’s perfectly fine for it to have a shell with mediocre penetration. It’s not for the Leclerc.
It’s a really disingenuous comparison.
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Wanting to buff the Leclerc by fixing its armor, asking for its better historical round and/or a better reload = hating the Leclerc and wanting for people who play it to suffer?
You’re not making any sense.
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I don’t know where you’re getting this, but Vacuum doesn’t exist, it was a proposal in 2004 for use in the Sprut-SD with fictional pen values. The best ammo Russia can get at this point is 3BM59 (compatible with all the same stuff as 3BM60), which accounting for the current pen calculator, would be about on par with M829A1. There’s a diverging point after that where all future NATO ammo in game would be better (to say nothing of DM53), and Russia can’t get anything better because they never MADE anything better.
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Huh?
Since when does asking buff for leclerc series=wants to see french players suffer?
Either you’re a quite big troll or you’re so high that you cant even understand what he wrote.
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hes just a troll bro
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I’m not sure how much of an improvement OFL 120 F2 would actually be, but I doubt it would change all that much. Going from 575 to, say, 650 mm RHAeq (ala DM53) doesn’t really give you any additional viable weakspots, it just makes a few existing ones (most notably the BVM driver’s viewport) slightly more forgiving. It would be nice to have but it’s not going to turn a rubbish tank into a good one (see Ariete).
I think a reload buff would be more impactful, an extra second to aim while the enemy is reloading can be huge, and so can one less second for an enemy to turn around after seeing a teammate get shot.
(sources GIAT CN120-26 — Wikipédia)
As you can see there is a big difference in penetration performance. (almost 100mm)
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And this document tells us that the French 120 F1 corresponds to the German DM43 and after having checked in game their power of penetrations and completely different, then if it is not one of the many voluntary nerfs, congratulations Gaijin for your research.
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That appears to be the French Wikipedia? Not exactly a great source for this kinda stuff. It isn’t even cited so it the numbers probably shouldn’t even be there. Incidentially the English one has completely different numbers (560 for F1 and 640 for F2).
So because it’s in French it’s a less good source than in English? It’s very proud. 🤣
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Wikipedia is just not a good source period, unless it’s claims are backed up by an actually reputable primary or secondary source.
Edit: Sourcing:
The English Wikipedia claims the numbers 560 mm RHAeq for OFL 120 F1 and 640 mm RHAeq for OFL 120 F2 come from Jane’s Ammunition Handbook 1994-1995, page 159 and Jane’s Ammunition Handbook 1999, page 660 respectively. I can’t verify that as I don’t have either on hand, but it should be possible to check.
The French wiki has the penetration values from this calculator which seems reasonable for in game purposes but requires knowing the exact dimensions and density of the penetrator as well as impact velocity.
Regarding OFL 120 F1 vs DM43, the English Wiki tells me they use different propellants. DM43 in game is also only fired from the shorter L44 gun, which probably has an impact.
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That does sound like it would be very close to the L55 performance of DM53. That said I am a bit confused by the designation, both English and French Wikis indicate 120 OFLE F2 to be a 2013 round different from the 1996 OFL 120 F2. So this appears not to be the same shell we were talking about? Given both are DU (and M829A2 is a 1994 round) we might be talking about a similar ballpark though (like DM53 vs DM63).
It seems like the OFL F2 and the OFLE F2 are two different rounds yeah, but I’m not sure if he’s making a difference between the two given that the topic he’s posting in is referencing the OFL F2.
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Since i started reading this post I also started to play the Leclerc again. Jeez it’s seriously broken …
The T-80 is just as fast while having much more armour and better gun, same for the Leo. The only tank I can engage without having 80% chance of dying is the Type 10 …
That’s my average game lately :
T-80 : can’t pen, not even the mantlet and enjoy being one shot in return.
Leo : try to hit the hull unless it’s the swedish version and then enjoy dying cuz the commander or gunner is still alive.
M1 : can kill it but still has better armour so depends on who shoots first
The others are manageable but don’t ever get hit cuz everything pens you.
Seriously, I know there are other tanks but those 3 are the ones you’ll always end up encoutering since they are spammed so much. How come a top tier mbt be struggling so much against adversaries so common and, according to gaijin, on the same level …
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OFL F1 pens as much as 3BM60 & L27A1.
DM43 pens far less than all 3.
Inb4 you call me a troll for stating that fact.
All tanks have a reload time that’s longer than real-life, no one’s given special treatment.