I wouldn’t consider that “borderline racist” but you may think what you want i haven’t really got deeper into the stories and history of French armour however where i am right now (reading the battle of Savoyard–Waldensian) it’s not really showing a lot of use of armor but one thing i did learn from your reply was that the AMX 50 Foch was never used, i knew it was a prototype but like i said “i haven’t really got deeper into the stories and history of French armour” but i do agree we’ll have to wait for some conflict to be sure about the armor of the Leclerc.
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Well what I found kinda racist was saying that a country wasn’t smart enough to understand how tanks armour works.
Bu then, why do you say that the French don’t know how to use armour since you didn’t go deep into their history ?
However, if you can share what you are reading on that battle of Savoyard-Waldensian I would be interested because I don’t know that battle.
the never understood armor is what’s wrong with what you said armor isn’t the primary part of there doctrine after ww2 they were designing tanks to be highly mobile and relatively light another reason why most of France’s military is wheeled vehicles and when it comes to the Leclerc it is just simply modeled wrong and every other nation you mentioned also falls under that same doctrine of speed and light weight over a large amount of armor
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Never in my comments did i say they weren’t smart enough to understand tank armour when i say they never understood the armour what i mean is how to properly use it and how to shape it and simple things like that basically designing the tanks and what i am currently reading is this “A previous war between Emmanuel Philibert, Duke of Savoy and his Waldensian subjects raged from 1560 to 1561, beginning when the duke ordered all Protestants in his domain to revert to Catholicism. The duke had been forced to implement this policy by signing the Peace of Cateau-Cambrésis (1559). The Waldensians petitioned him, saying they had always stayed loyal to him and that their religion was the same as Jesus Christ originally taught it, and swore to become Catholics if their theology could be disproven in a debate. For months the duke did not respond to the petition, while tensions between his Catholic noblemen and Waldensian peasants rose and eventually escalated to violence on 4 April 1560, and would only cease on 5 July 1561 when the Peace of Cavour was concluded between them.[5]” even though this doesn’t talk about any French vehicle armour i’m simply just going over all the history within France meaning all wars.
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Yes I know but that’s how I felt it because it’s weird to say that since they had very good tank armour design and event today the design is one of their main selling point, like the oscillating turret use.
Oh I thought it was a tank battle, sorry.
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it was never really historically linked in to the actual stories of tank building however me being dumb as usual i hear many tales of the french armour since they (friends of mine) “read books” and more but that’s why i’m reading all of the current and past wars of France i’ll also tell you what they said and stated in our discussion “France was one of the many allied countries United States including Great Britain, the Soviet Union, and, to a lesser extent, China they had very horrible and unique armour angling and designs when the war first started however they started experimenting with their designs and techniques meaning they evolved over time they would usually be right next to the americans wherever they go sending troops to fight the germans and others of the axis” excuse their grammar but these are just friends who “try” to understand history.
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understandable.
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Now rereading what i said it did somewhat sound like i was being a little borderline racist towards france however i never actually meant for it to come out like that so i do apologize.
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No problem, I understand better now. It’s nice trying to understand but be careful where you find your sources because there are a lot of rumors and people saying things when actually it’s not true.
For France it’s even worse because it’s quite a poorly known country and people always make fun of it for losing the war so they believe that the tanks were bad or some other stuff
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Don’t worry man, thank you for your apologies !
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It was through the Driver’s optics, a weakpoint common in all tank designs (unless you get the very brand new prototype tanks with camera only)
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Nope, was through the UFP. Decapitated the driver and injured the commanders legs.
Yeah I get what you mean, a buff to the reload or a more powerful round is indeed more likely, but I still wish the armor would get fixed :<
Don’t forget the Ariete AMV which is simply not 11.7 material.
That said, while you might be correct in regards to these tanks, I’d say most of these aren’t in as bad shapes as the Leclerc. The Abrams and Leo 2A5/2A6 would be perfectly fine in a world where the BVM isn’t as BS as it is, so I’d say we should be arguing for nerfs to the BVM instead.
As for the Challenger and Merkava, I’d say keeping their mobility as is but buffing their armor (should be possible for the Merkava at least, since the LIC has a more accurate armor scheme IIRC. The Chally 2F and TES should also get a KE protection buff) would give them some unique flavor, just like the “4s glass cannon” is for Japanese tanks. Maybe the Challenger 2 could also get a better round, if one exists.
But I made this thread because the Leclerc because is the second worst 11.7 tank at the moment in my opinion, second only to the poor Ariete.
IIRC the precise location of the missile hit was never revealed to the public. A very well informed French milblogger only said this:
“La charge creuse aurait traversé la partie frontale du char au niveau du poste de pilotage tuant le pilot et blessant the chef de char aux jambes”
Modified Deepl translation:
“The shaped charge is said to have passed through the front of the tank around cockpit level, killing the pilot and wounding the tank commander’s legs”.
“Around cockpit level” is rather vague, could the driver’s hatch, the UFP in front of it, or the LFP.
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Somewhat, that also brings up the issue that even though other nations do have stuff, that stuff is never used because it’s all terrible, HSTV-L is only good against light targets, and the spall is abysmal, I think Isreal just has the Merkavas, China’s MBTs are fine but they also have a lack of support around them. Germany has the TAM 2C but it’s not amazing, Italy has the Centauro 2 which might be the exception to the rule. Japan doesn’t even get a supporting Spaa.
Honestly the more I think about it the only ground trees that don’t have these issues are Russia and Sweden. It wouldn’t be too bad if one of those nations alone didn’t make up 60%, of the top tier playerbase.
Yes I know him.
Except if the shooter was underneath the tank, we can exclude the LFP. A hit from above the hatch also wouldn’t have hit the commander. Must be the UFP because it’s the only way for the splash to hit both driver and commander.
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Leclercs don’t need a buff but an unjustified bug fix for too long, we just ask to have a real Leclerc
- ufp needs to be fixed
- turret rotation speed to be corrected
- Leclerc S3 titanium armor must be correct
- the speed thanks to the hyperbar engine must be corrected
- the lack era in the turret compartments
and I think I forgot other bugs but the list is quite long for a tank that has been in the game for several years
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I think one of the biggest issues with the Leclerc is that it’s not as ‘up-to-snuff’ as other tanks like the T-72, largely because of availability of info
The Leclerc’s should be all means be one of the best MBTs in game, it performs with flying colours in all the NATO mock-up battles and usually outdoes the Challenger 2s and M1s
Also funny little side not, of the 3 Leclercs we have, the first 2 are essentially the same tank with the largest differences between the Leclerc 1 and S2 being that the S2 has an improved air conditioning system (or really has one at all)
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True, just make it like it is IRL and with all the shells it has
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The funniest part of this is that in game the S2 is functionally worse than the S1 because the added weight of AC reduce the speed of both the turret traverse and the tank itself.
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By the way, Justin just made a video about the Mirage 2000-5 and said that all but one of his games were losses (video timestamped):
If even a unicum player with a 78% efficiency rating is struggling, what the hell is the rest of the player base supposed to do?
And as if the Leclercs being gimped wasn’t enough, they had to ruin the VT1 as well. That thing is unusable if the target makes even the slightest of move.
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