You play VBCI/AMX-32/AMX-10RC, you get easy nukes.
You play Leclercs, it’s horror, and you’re actually lucky if you get 5 wins in a row against Russia (it never happens).
Tells you how nerfed NATO vehicles are at top tier, and how dominant Russia is there.
I’ve been doing quite alright in my ariete, and VRCC which is a 9.7 light at top tier.
the Leclercs turret basket addons were a bit of a bad move, but overall they’re strong as hell tanks, teh dude I was responding to above has most his KD from them , go check his stats out with em.
I’ve been doing quite alright in my ariete
vs
“I’m never dying in my BVM, and win every single game”.
It’s all about relative performance. Russian players simply don’t sweat at top tier, compared to NATO.
I die quite a lot in my BVM and I’ve not got a great winrate with it lol
That statement just shows how little you either know about top tier in general or specifically how to play at top tier.
They do in their tanks, the issue is their CAS is nice and strong, not that france with teh rafale and Hammers is lacking mind you.
Russian MBTs favour lower skilled players.
Higher skilled players prefer NATO MBTs because they offer more than just armour.
No wonder the average player is struggling playing NATO vehicles at top tier.
But the main reason Russia has been curb stomping (especially at the moment) is because of the BMPT, the Pantsirs, their helis, and their Su-30s.
Their MBTs aren’t carrying them – especially not the T-80BVM and T-90M.
Remove that BMPT and there would be half as much CAS on the field due ot how easily it is to open teh door to a SU30 or some sht like that.
It’s ridiculous this thing,.
Well even if the BMPT gets removed, the free 12.0 Pantsir and the Iron Dome Pantsir SM-SV is enough to let most Su-30s and Mi-28NMs have air supremacy over the battlefield unless you mean that the initial number of players able to spawn CAS would get cut in half due to the higher difficulty of getting them in the T-90M / T-80BVM.
Aye but there would be less of them is my point.
What do Leclercs have to offer, except bad mobility because it’s too fat, no armor, and a quick reload rate useless because you don’t play mbts in close quarters ?
Leclercs have turret cheek armour that can withstand ~570mm of penetration (not great but not unusable), the only NATO MBT (besides the Merkava) that doesn’t have a prominent NATO Hump (it can shoot behind itself), has quite good reverse speed and general acceleration, good 5s reload, and decent gun depression (not great but not bad).
The Leclercs should be 12.3 in all honesty, just like the 2A6 and 2A5.
The T-80BVM and T-90M could well as be 12.3 too, along with the Black Night and Chally 2E.
Wow man it has a strong turret cheek!
Most likely will bounce 99% of the shots on its hull.
Bad acceleration, it’s actually more or less the same than russian MBTs, it’s fat. The hump thing is good yes, the gun depression is bad. The 5sec reload is basically the same than the 6.4 of russian mbts, can’t even see the difference in long range battles.
It should be 12 or 12.3, and the bvm/90m should definetely NOT be at 12/12.3. lmao.
It’s not completely unusable, unlike the Ariete’s:
Even if they do penetrate (like if you were not facing them), the chance that it penetrates and ammo racks you is quite low (unless they’re shooting ~610mm+ rounds).
The hull is only able to tank ~550mm for a small slither of it – not a good hull to be fair.
You can sometimes ricochet shots with the UFP if you use your gun depression, though I wouldn’t really rely on it:
The acceleration is actually above average…especially for top tier. Have you played the Black Night, Strv 122B+, Sep V2, or 2A7V?
The T-80BVM is quite good in terms of acceleration too, so ‘more or less the same than russian MBTs’ (I assume you mean T-80BVM here and not the T-90M) is a compliment if anything.
-10 is great. -9 is also good. -8 is pushing it (which is what the Leclerc has), but there are plenty of other MBTs with worse gun depression:
Type 10 / TKX has -7 (though tbf they can use suspension controls to make it ~-12)
Merkava Mk.4 has -7
T-80BVM has -5
T-90M has -6
ZTZ99A has -5
Oplot has a whopping -4!
Leclerc is not doing too badly in this department. Not at all…
No… 5s is a lot more usable than 6.4s.
Maybe it’s not as noticeable at long ranges but definitely in CQC (which is what most maps are, especially around capture points).
12.0 may be pushing it but I could possibly agree.
I think it receiving a better dart and staying at 12.7 or moving down at 12.3 would be better.
12.0 no, but I could definitely see them being 12.3, like with the 2A5s and 2A6s.
And like I said before,
I used to be in your shoes and I used to think the Abrams was really bad compared to the T-80s / T-90s because they could shoot (relatively) anywhere while I couldn’t.
But the more I played (especially with other countries) I started realising that armour (while important) is not the only thing that makes a vehicle good. Reverse speed, reload, and gun depression is really useful as well.
If I had to choose between having armour or reverse speed, reload, and gun depression, I’d now take the latter, but being able to choose both would be great.
The Leopard 2A7V / Strv 122s have all those aspects, and it’s why they’re considered some of the best MBTs currently in-game.
If you want, I could try showing you some tips and tricks that helped me
It really couldn’t unless they remove the spall liners the T-90M should not be seeing 11.3 tanks.
7.0s reload, -6 degrees of gun depression, and terrible reverse speed is compensated for the armour and spall liners.
It’s the 11.3 T-72B3 with worse acceleration but beefed up armour and survivability (though the ammo rack is still not safe).
Keep in mind that said 11.3s can also face Merkava Mk.4s, Leopard 2A5s, and the M1A2s, all of which are far more scary in most cases.
11.3 T-80 U with 3BM42 facing the 2A5, for example:
So what you’re pretty much saying is that it has the worst depression among NATO tanks. We already know russian style tanks have really bad depression.
If you don’t count the Merkava, sure.
But that ‘worst’ isn’t actually that bad.
But if we look at other aspects of the Leclerc compared to NATO / Western-Style MBTs:
They’re the second fastest accelerating Top Tier NATO / Western MBT out of all of them (the Ariete AMV comes first), with respectable top speed and reverse speed too.
They have no NATO Hump, which can’t be said about any other NATO / Western MBT other than the Merkavas.
It has 40 degrees per second of turret rotation speed, which is better than the TKX’s / Type 10’s 30 degrees per second, the Chally 2E’s / Black Night’s 31 degrees per second, and the Merkava Mk.4B’s / Merkava Mk.4M’s 34 degrees per second.
It has better vertical guidance than all of those above too.
It has a 5s reload, which is pretty standard for NATO / Western MBTs at the moment apart from the Leopards and Type 10s / TKXs. But in an actual casual GRB match, you’re going to outreload most NATO MBTs because most people won’t have ACE crews, let alone expert.
Sure but if it has the worst depression is it even worth mentioning it as ‘not bad’? And comparing with soviet style tanks is a non argument.
Well -8 being ‘the worst’ compared to -4 being ‘the worst’ is very different.
Watch out, he’ll try to say how 5s is equal to 6.4/7s due to various latencies and whatnot that are conveniently only affecting players of tanks with a 5s reload, so their reload speeds are equalized with that in mind.
Why so ?
There are three MBTs found at 11.3, which are IPM1, Merkava Mk.3s and Swedish T-80U.
For example, IPM1 is already facing 3BM60 regularly so it’s armor effectiveness would remain unchanged. It’ll still have better mobility, gun handling and reload speed and will aim at pretty much the same weakspots it already does when facing USSR vehicles.
Truth be told, 90M isn’t that much different to face as an 11.3 when compared to T-72B3.
Yes, 90M has better armor and spall liners but I doubt that makes it uncounterable by 11.3 vehicles, which should rightfully struggle when seeing 12.3s.
