Russian top tier tanks need a fair buff

[IHаteCAS]

Honestly can’t be asked to individually reply to each one of these with a counterpoint, but

OP Non-Russian Vehicles, some were, some still are, some on release, some after a significant buff:

PakPuma, XP-50, Aerfer Ariete, Sagittario 2, M4A3 105, M1 Abrams, AH-1Z, Leopard 2K, Leopard 2A4, Leopard 2A5, Leopard 2A6, Leopard 2A7V, Leopard 2AV, PT-16/T-14 Mod., Strv 122A, Type 90, Leclerc S1, German KV-1B, CW-21, TURM III, IPM1, M1A1, Coelian, HE 100, P-39N, J2M2, R3 T20, Mitsubishi T-2, EBR 1954, Gepard, XM246, ItPsV 90, ZA-35, Falcon, AMX-30 DCA, Harrier, SdKfz 140/1, F-14A, F-4E, XM800T, VIDAR, Kpz/MBT-70, Puma, T18E2, Schützenpanzer PUMA, Ki-44-II, T58, T20, M4A3E2 75 Jumbo, M4A3E2 76 Jumbo, Calliope, P-59, Conqueror, Centurion Mk.2, Centurion Mk.3, Tiger H1, Tiger E, Rafale C F3, Mirage 2000 CS5/CS4, Mirage 3C, F-15E/F-15I, CL-13B, JAS39A, FJ-4B VMF (Ground), F2G-1, P-51C, F4U-1, P-39N, F8F-1, P-51D-10, P-38L, F4U-4, P-51H, F-80C, F4U-4B, F-86Fs, F-18A, F-8U, LIM-5P, Spitfire LF MK.9, Sea Meteor, Typhoon Mk.1B, A7M2, Ki-84 Ko2, B7A2 Homare, F-5s, VL Pyörremyrsky, A-4E (Ground), Leo 1 L/44, G.91 (Ground), T14, Magach Hydra, Merkava Mk.3 (US), Merkava Mk.2 (US), Merkava Mk.1 (US), XM803, XM1 Chrysler, XM1 GM, IRIS-T SLM, M24DK, A-10A Early, A-10C, LVT M24, L-62 ANTI, B1 Ter, P40, Somua SM, A6M5 Ko, Tiger UHT, YAH-64, AH-64E, Z-10ME, Mi-28A (Sweden), G-Lynx, Merkava Mk.4M LIC, AH Mk.1 Apache, A-129 CBT/International, AH-60 (Israel), F-16A, AGS, T 80 U (Sweden), A-1H (Ground), Ho-Ri Production, TAM, TAM 2IP, FV4030/2 Shir 2, TTD, M4A1, M4, M4A2, CV 90105, A-6E TRAM, Strf 9040B, Strf 9040C, Strf 9040 BILL, Lvkv 9040C, Begleitpanzer 57, Ka-Chi, T29, M551 (76), Ru 251, VT1-2, Class 3 (P), Fox, OF-40 Mk.2, OF-40 (MTCA), Leopard 40/70, Lorraine 40t, AMX-40, Strv 103A/-0,

[MOTULCOW]

While all these points are valid, the first shot advantage plays a huge factor which generally snowballs into a number difference. Under the same skill level having smaller weakspot just meant a lesser reaction time, not to mention the turret baskets (usually disables engine too if shot from front)

[IHаteCAS]

It depends. In frontal engagement where both notice each other at the same time, RU vehicle has the advantage. But in most cases, NATO vehicles’ superior mobility and soft factors allow them to reach the advantageous positions first, giving them the advantage.

[MOTULCOW]

I would consider top tier tanks have really similar mobility with difference of a few seconds (except for challenger), Id say its a niche case that you actually holds a really good position before others

[SadRIPer]

Man, what is this explanation

You know I’m right about all my points, it would take someone to be blind not to see all those advantages I stated against NATO

[IHаteCAS]

T-80 has good mobility, but in terms of T-72/90, they struggle heavily.

[An_Pigeon]

@SadRIPer

Spikes/MMPs are broken (gotta love hitting commander MG 2 times in a row, a cannon then 6 ERAs eating the ATGM) ;

You say that, but then I’ve also one tapped russian, and chinese MBTs frontally with spikes from the Namer. Whilst then a nato MBT soaking one directly on the roof.

@SadRIPer

• NATO MBT armors being paper compared to reality and russian MBTs ingame ;

Please show me a NATO MBT IRL being able to survive a long rod penetrator through say the lower glacis at 1km range.
They are fantastic machines, and certainly better than Russian tanks IRL hwoever they are not some hyper armoured indestructible machines.

The fact is even some of the most well defended MBTs for their times have been penetrated by not even long rods, CR2 being penetrated by an RPG9 ? was it? shows just that.

@SadRIPer

• NATO MBTs not getting their best DART (Leos, Leclercs)

He says as NATO MBTs have the highest penning darts in game by a large margin.

DM53 is nearly 700MM of pen mate if you need higher than that, then massive skill issue.

@SadRIPer

T-series model are broken (ERAs and autoloaders eat DARTs

shock horror auto loaders soak spall and eat darts for literally every tree it’s RNG based which has been proven time and time again.

@SadRIPer

ERAs eat ATGMs, the whole model eat bombs ( Stalinium armor? - #684 by TROOPER7 : what is THIS seriously ??!)

Leopard roof MGs are nutorious for eating even up to 3k LB bombs man, what’s this one isolated event supposed to show lol, I’ve got a picture of my WZ1001 after taking a direct hit from a KH38MT, 2 of them to be exact and driving off as if nothin happened.

@SadRIPer

LMURs top down approach are correctly modeled, as well as their damage model => AH-64E AGMs are completely BROKEN compared to these, you usually need 2-4 missiles to destroy MBTs/SPAAs/BMPTs

Jag missiles are doing just fine mate, not as good as LMURs but still absolutely destroying top tier lol

@SadRIPer

• BMPTs are broken, no need to develop here

Agreed but they’ve began to at least rectify it -.- never should of happened.

@SadRIPer

Pantsir-S1 currently best SACLOS SPAA in the game (12 ready-to-fire missiles, multi targeting system). Let’s not even talk about the next 12.7 Pantsir, this will end top tier experience pure and simple ;

Clutching at straws here mate, stat shark shows Pantsir had back before the new SPAA dropped about a 1.48 KD, IRIS T had after just a month nearly 3.0KDm was about 2,89 or such, which is nearly Double pantsir.

No one batted an eyelid.

@SadRIPer

Tiger helicopters still at 12.7, why ? 8 FnF missiles VS 16 for other helis, 7-8 km max range VS 16/25 km max range for other helis, no IRCM, climb slower than other helis, HAC and UHT don’t even have a cannon ;

all helis which are about 11.3 and up are completely obsolete now due to the new SPAA; not just tigers, I’ve got the AH64 Paten and it’s useless.

@SadRIPer

75% of small maps, advantaging russian MBTs because they rush you in corners

That’s a disadvantage for russian tanks which are

• less mobile.
• worse rounds so less room for error than DM53 slingers (and ofc M829A2 slingers)
• no reverse gears.

@SadRIPer

To shoot at russian MBTs, gotta go pixelhunting.

You do not need to pixel hunt, at all man, you just don’t need to shoot the UFP.
The one armoured spot.

@SadRIPer

(especially when you have the blur motion on, and that those bushes will “melt” with the tank’s armor in a blurry weird way).

No they don’t I use high motion blur and max graphics and can hit them no worries at all.

@SadRIPer

You shoot at russian MBTs from far away ? Good luck, gotta go pixel

eh they hve a -4 reverse gear, if they mess up theri shot they aint getting out your sights, plenty time enough to aim, hit them and move if you need to.
Or just fire again, and finish em off if you somehow bugger up the first shot so bad.

@SadRIPer

Russian MBTs don’t need to have the best pen, because NATO MBT armors are paper. They have basically the same speed going forward. They now have basically the same reload speed as well (6.4sec reload = +/- the 6sec reload some NATO MBTs have). They of course have so much armor that even top NATO darts can’t frontaly pen.

• 1 they do not have the same speed going forward at all, the only Top tier russian MBT which is anywhere near the same as NATO MBTs is the 80BVM.

• 2 they do not have basically the same reload at all lol, most top tier MBTs have a 5 second reload, or if you aren’t aced, 5.3 seconds. Abrams, Leclerc, Type10, CR2, Ariete, Merkavas.
  All load substantially faster than the T80BVM , bever mind T90M.

@SadRIPer

IFVs : russians have IFVs with much higher fire rate, laser accuracy, 2 cannons (1 main for HE/ATGMs, 1 autocannon), much faster than some wheeled NATO IFVs. NATO IFVs in comparaison ? Bushmaster, completely garbage.

Bushmaster sucking doesn’t mean all NATO IFVs suck?
The AJAX was doing just fine, pumas not bad, the FReccia n such are also pretty damn potent.
Type 89 is strong as hell as well for it’s BR.

@SadRIPer

• Yak-9k, completely broken.

I’ve got one and have no idea how it’s broken, i hate the thing with a passion.

@SadRIPer

Been playing some 7.3 US recently. Noticed something. Russian heavy/medium tanks, and some of their tank destroyer, are almost unpenable, I

huge skill issue brother
If I can pen an IS 3 with a damn M26 with the short 90MM then you can with the long 90 found at 7.3.

@SadRIPer

T-10M ? Don’t even think you can pen that.

yes you can, LFP , drivers port, turret roof.

@SadRIPer

Object 268 ? Gotta go pixel hunting in that driver’s port.

Lower forntal plate, drivers port, cupolas effectively don’t shoot the huge ass peen on the thickest part and it’ll go through

@SadRIPer

T-54/55 ? Gotta go pixel hunting in that tiny cupola, berely visible).

No you don’t, at all.
Lower frontal plate can one tap em easy as pie.

@SadRIPer

NATO heavy/medium tanks in comparaison ? Multiple weakspots, side will not bounce against a shell (even against russian SPAAs lmao), if you turn your turret a little bit, you’re done

What? The T32E1 at 7.7 for example is a monster at its BR.
The M103 I started to take it back out, exchanging its heat for the AP and it absolutely slams as well.

Conquoror? cuts through russian MBTs and heavies like butter.

@SadRIPer

T-series MBTs have IRST + HE + Proxy HE + ATGM shells. Some NATO MBTs don’t even have any of tha

Tell me, what russian mBT has IRST? with proxy HE? the T90M does not have proxy HE it has time fused which is pretty piss.

@SadRIPer

ATGM shells

Which are completely useless lol? they’re a gimmick but if you are using them, or have died to them then skill issue.

your initial points on lMUR and such are not that debatable but pff the vast majority of what you said is uneducated slop about the vehicles and game

EDIT: after a quick look at your statistics it does show quite clearly why you believe what you do. You barelt manage over 900 score a game. How’s that even possible.

[An_Pigeon]

@IHаteCAS

Honestly can’t be asked to individually reply to each one of these with a counterpoint, but

I did actually mate lol DW

[IHаteCAS]

[SadRIPer]

As I stated before, only the 0-30 time maters, because it is related to the actual speed you have midfighting someone.

The 0-60 and top speed don’t mater, because russian MBTs will just camp hull down somewhere (so no need for them to flank), or rush you in corners midfight.

Concerning the 0-30 speed, t-90, t72, t80, leos, leclercs, abrams, types, even challengers : they’re all the same speed more or less. We’re talking about X/10th / X/1th here.

Russian and NATO MBTs basicaly have the same speed

[AlvisWisla]

The turret weakspots look smaller on Abrams compared to T-80BVM because the vehicle is larger, but the initial weakspots are about the same size.
The biggest irony is once the turret ERA of T-80BVM is gone, the entire turret is the weakspot.

T-80BVM’s turret weakspot to armor ratio is higher than Abrams’ turret.

[IHаteCAS]

This is one of the stupidest statements relating to mobility that I have ever heard.

[SadRIPer]

You say that, but then I’ve also one tapped russian, and chinese MBTs frontally with spikes from the Namer. Whilst then a nato MBT soaking one directly on the roof.

I stopped reading there.

I know you, I know you will defend Russia on things that cannot be defended (in this case my points), so I won’t read or answer further.

[An_Pigeon]

@SadRIPer

As I stated before, only the 0-30 time maters, because it is related to the actual speed you have midfighting someone.

By whos decree? your own? lol no all the speeds ad times matter, a leopard 2a5 or a6 will get to it’s position way before a 2a7 or a T90M will.
T80BVM will get there and out position other vheicles.

ANd so on and so on.

@SadRIPer

The 0-60 and top speed don’t mater, because russian MBTs will just camp hull down somewhere (so no need for them to flank), or rush you in corners midfight.

He says as if russian tanks have A : gun depression for relaibly hull down.
B: reverse gear for maintaining a defensive stature.
C: Better turret armour than NATO MBTs.

@SadRIPer

Concerning the 0-30 speed, t-90, t72, t80, leos, leclercs, abrams, types, even challengers : they’re all the same speed more or less. We’re talking about X/10th / X/1th here.

No they are not.

They also depending on terrain, and movement of player get to positions different times, CR2 loses Way more speed if it turns than say an abrams.

@SadRIPer

Russian and NATO MBTs basicaly have the same speed

not at all.
Play a match in russian mBTs you’ll be left behind xD

[SadRIPer]

It’s just pure logic, at this point it’s just defending Russia blindly without admiting the truth man.

[IHаteCAS]

The lack of self awareness is honestly funny.

[An_Pigeon]

@SadRIPer

I stopped reading there.

Shows your character mate.

Why stop reading cause I’m saying something which goes against your russian bias narative?

I’ve skiffed type 90s with spikes and nuked the whole tank then had direct hits do “hit” spikes are nutoriously buggy. Nothing to do with russian ERA, wHICH BY THE WAY, British ERA stops them just the same.

@SadRIPer

I know you, I know you will defend Russian on things that cannot be defended (in this case my points), so I won’t read or answer further

Becuase I’ve used 8 out of 10 nations in thsi game to top tier over the span over just over 4 thousand hours and know more about the vehciles in question?

The fact is like I said your points about LMUR are fine, the rest about the long 90 struggling at 7.3 is total bollocks and is user error not the game at all.

[An_Pigeon]

@SadRIPer

, at this point it’s just defending Russia blindly without admiting the truth man.

It’s not at all lol, mobility and speed are two distinct differnet things.
Russian MBTs have overall worse mobility than NATO MBTs that’s not even a debatable fact.

[An_Pigeon]

Dude’s refusing to read what i said, It’s pointless to continue this discussion I’m just gonna block em man.
Posting your own crap on a forum then refusing to read another persons response, which is actually properly written with coherent counter arguments, just becuase. Is not why I am here.

EDIT; Done.

[SadRIPer]

You don’t want to see your favorite russian tech tree being nerfed, we understand man.

No need to defend Russia blindly like that. You won’t even admit 1 point against Russia is real, hell you even defended how Spikes perform.

There is no need to argue with you, it’s like talking to a wall.