Simply joining a lobby, seeing that everyone else is “Bot-Farming” and proceeding to not engage them out of your own free will and without agreeing to anything in chat (maybe because you were gonna use an attacker to bomb bases anyway), is not against EULA afaik.
You’ve confused my statement… The heli ec kill farming was a show of no-one needing to say anything, they just ‘knew’ they were doing that and all joined in the rush…
If you know though that the bots are sitting in there, doing nothing, you’ve joined a passive lobby where you’re under no threat of being attacked, hence it’s a passive situation, you aren’t going to be hunted and you’ll be fine with that.
So you go do your thing… Knowingly doing this, is unfair to the rest of us.
((@Schindibee This is why it’s really difficult with people who are muddying the issue, to actually get it directly to your attention))
(After all, some of these posts were flagged and removed even at one point)
You are severely mistaken. They may be wrong for creating the environment, a random player that joins and decides not to engage them without agreeing on it via chat, is not.
You’re not abusing it if you just play the game how it’s intended to be played. It’s not “I wanted to play bomber, but there’s botters, so I must play a more PvP playstyle to counter or negate those botters, otherwise I’m considered a botter as well”.
Of course, seeking such sessions specifically to join the rank of exlicit PvE abusers, that’s not ok.
What I recommend, is to always:
a) Play the match, just as you would normally (eventually others will join doing that as well) and how it is intended to be played (which would be PvPvE, if we want to use that term): Play the objectives, kill the (AI and player) enemy! Like this you automatically force them to adapt to the PvP playstyle we all want, instead of the other way round.
and
b) Report the players that are suspected of botting (or admit doing so)
You’re certainly not expected / encouraged to leave such a match. What would you (or Gaijin) gain from this? It’s the same like a freshly started match with just 4 players, and it will probably populate with “normal” players. Play the game, turn it into a PvPvE match.
On the contrary, if you leave such PvE-matches, you give the botters free hand, because they have it easier if they can go about their business without PvP-opposition and without getting reported…
As I mentioned before, our system relies a lot on players reporting other players for misbehavior. I know that a lot of people think that’s shifting too much responsibility and work onto the shoulders of the players, but one must also take into consideration that a) players are always around and will spot issues and abusive behavior very reliably, and b) (sadly again) it would be extremely resource intensive to proactively manage this by “policing” those matches. That’s realistically just not feasible I’m afraid.
And yes I’m very aware that the issue then quickly shifts to “but what happens with my reports?” and a lot of scepticism if this works at all.
I understand that, we all do, but you can rest assured that we are monitoring this closely, and take actions, even if this may not be clear or evident for the players.
Again, reporting is the key, and obviosuly frequency plays a role, as a botter who gets reported more washes up in our nets quicker and more reliably, and is dealt with as this helps us prove a misconduct on their part.
Important however. This does NOT mean that one should spam reports, as on the contrary this would “water down” the system and make it less effective: It’s way more effective if a player is reported 5 times once in 5 different matches, than 25 times in just one match, obviously.
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I know I’m not severely mistaken as peopel assume that these lobbys ARE PvE by default, so they’ve come to accept that they are that way anyway, so the mentioning isn’t going to catch everyone…
There’s not enough reports if the limit is still as it was 6 months back.
It took a LONG time for the heli EC problem to be raised because people couldn’t understand it, and because peopel excused it as ‘bad luck’ for a time as well, playing out ‘Oh they can choose another spawn, oh whoops, they chose the wrong spawn’ where they were merely sitting there taking off, constantly…
Mate, how long have you actually been playing Simulator Battles? Because from the “little” you’ve written here, it seems to me that it’s not that long.
In case you come from RB: In SB, we do not always go straight for the furball and there are a lot more options to engage in Strike missions (bomb targets) and many SB-Players enjoy doing this.
Circumstances regarding a lobby you joined do not factor into how you will play the match.
If someone comes to bomb bases, that’s what they will do. Regardless of what the rest of the lobby is doing. Same with pilots who join to chase after players.
It is all intended gameplay in Sim.
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Yea, sorry, but just because I’m not a player of sim, doesn’t mean I can’t highlight the issue that some are blatantly ignoring because they benefit from it.
You are not highlighting an issue. We are already aware of actual abuse. That’s the whole reason for this Thread (which you did not create btw).
What you are trying to say is that all players who engage in “PvE” when they find themselves in a lobby with farmers should be punished.
So based on your suggestions the only logical way to avoid punishment (in that sense) would be to either engage in PvP in those lobbies or leave those lobbies if you don’t want to engage in PvP.
What we are saying is that playstyle should not and cannot be forced by any party.
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what?!
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What I just PMed you, and the responses of these 2 above show the problem someone actually raising such an issue faces in this thread.
Umm, if you’re not a sim player, how do you come to the conclusion then that botting is such a big issue in this game mode?
I can only speak for myself (nearly exclusive Sim player since about a year), and while yes, I do observe PvE issues from time to time, I don’t experience as a big issue, again because I just continue playing as intended, and see most players usually do the same.
It IS a problem for the sim community and for WT, but I personally don’t consider it one more important or critical than other issues plaguing Sim atm. I (again: personally) find botting in Sim EC much less of a problem both in frequency and effect, than in the naval game modes, where it really is very VERY pronounced.
All this doesn’t make the players concerns (including yours, @FlyingDoctor of course) any less valid or important. It IS an issue, and must be discussed and addressed, of course.
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FlyingDoctor is the Gaijin RB policeman. the RB help sheriff who keeps order in Sim. such people are a much bigger problem than any abuser.
Because I’m highlighting an exploit that many have reported in the past, and ignoring it and excusing it is how it comes to be normal.
Much the same with the bots that were idling and flying through to drop bombs… I got informed of them, spectated, seen they were doing it, and reported it.
The reason I am able to think about the exploitative situation it leads to is because I designed gamemodes for other games that required to check for botting players, players sitting in vehicles, doing nothing but ‘farming’…
Who in the actual hell are you, because you don’t know me, so . . . .
Schindibee I’m glad that you and I are finally of the same opinion. That is not often the case :) :D
All the more to be cherished then, and a great example that we all may agree on some things and disagree on others!
We’re all here because we love the game, we all may have different views on what is best for it, and being able to discuss this should also be cherished, even if we sometimes disagree and get on each others nerves, haha!
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yes I agree with you. when I have lunch at homeoffice I often go to the wt hangar and my favorite wt plane turns and “eats” with me. :D
yes sim is still the game of games. even though I appreciate the sim with the 3 letters.
but again briefly back to the topic:
the people who are so upset about PvE botting should explain to me how I behave in such a situation. if I find the enemy and shoot him he will probably drop out of the session. then the battle is over immediately.
the removal of the placeholder AI and the immediate end of the session when the enemy drops out - I think this is a huge problem that needs to be talked about.
an anti-abuse measure that backfires and harms the whole sim mode.
CC: @Schindibee
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That is not entirely true, Bunny. They will often push this practice over to other region servers. This is not limited to just regular players doing this. You actually will find certain lobbies being operated as a side hustle. One or two individuals that communicates with others using social media, and then charge these players to use the lobby they set up. That way, it allows them to boost their account freely without opposition. They also use multibox software to operate alt accounts to allow those customers to free farm them on the runway. The same accounts they sent over to Naval in order to replenish their SL bank.
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To avoid attention, they don’t operate them 24/7. You will often see them mostly during SA prime time hours, and when it shifts over to EU/CIS prime time. If any outsider interferes, they get extremely belligerent (even using racial name-calling) and will abuse features like the spectate mode to find your location. On some occasions, they bring in a bodyguard player that will often abuse 3rd party cheat software to hunt and grief you till you leave. These groups are organized and will often coordinate with other crews, or organizations that use bot software to boost/sell accounts on auction sites. And when events are active, they will massively flood the air Sim mode in order to control the lobby space in all regions.
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Another thing, this thread has gone way off-topic on the PvE issue. Let’s be clear here! The Sim community has been organizing on the various populated Sim discords to combat this problem. We have no concern with players that play the AI objectives. That is by mission design, and you do help contribute to the team match. Anyone claiming otherwise is either trolling or ill-informed on the air Sim PvE situation.
This is the real issue! The term “PvE” is being abused as a virtue signal to start a truce between both sides. Some of them will claim that they don’t want to deal with the frustration of fighters. The fact is this is nothing more than a gaslight attempt to control the lobby, and mask their true intentions.
These players that often organize this will use this time to either rocket the airfield, or use other exploitive methods to game the economy. Most will actually get very angry if you actually kill AI targets. Anyone that thinks they can CAS freely in such rooms; think again.
Their purpose is to prolong the game as much as possible to milk the max reward of 3 hours, and to avoid any unneeded ticket bleed that ends the game early. If you break their own rule, then you will be hunted down as they try to force you to leave. You either comply to their standard of PvE by joining their exploitive behavior, or leave.
The other side of PvE is those players who set up truce rooms during events. Non-Sim players from AB or RB mode that come here to cheese the tasks based on word of mouth, or watching a YT video; mostly to rocket AF and suicide into them. While firing rockets on the airfield is not technically against the EULA. We’re open to all who are interested in playing Sim and want to learn it. But, we are sick and tired of dealing with outsiders acting like little children when they get shot down. Thinking they can come into this mode and tell us what to do, and how to play it by their standards. We’re not going to sit around and tolerate such arrogance by anyone.
Again, we have nothing against those who do actual PvE that is by design from the developers. The issue is anyone who abuse the term “PvE” as a means to gaslight others, and force a truce. That way, they can freely exploit the game mode without player opposition.
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You’re a senior GM?
How do I go about removing a chat ban? A friend recently got into the game and I’ve found it a little hard giving directions or tips without chat. I barely remember when I was chat banned.