yeah good idea, i think that fighter esa radars will probably always be able to detect missiles, but the arh missiles themselves should have a much harder time tracking radar missiles until lock range, around 2-4 km, at least 2km for r-77.
I don’t think they can ever fully remove the mechanic, becuase ground arh missiles use the same seekerhead as air to air missiles.
Like imagine if they nerf arh missiles a lot and then you’re in a spyder trying to intercept kh38mts with derbies, or a claws/nasams with amraams/amraam er. Would be terrible for gameplay
r-77-1 at least is rated for only 12 g target maneuvers, so if the missile its intercepting is pulling like 30 gs, it shouldn’t be able to intercept it.
It’s also rated for target interceptions for up to around mach 3.
OFC though, missiles only pull that when TTI is less than 10 seconds, so r-77-1 and other fox 3s will probably be able to intercept munitions reliably when maneuvering less than that.
And if the target munition is going slower than mach 3 it should also be able to intercept it reliably.
@Xeno_quaza can u correct me if im wrong, ur a lot more knowledgable on me on topics like this though
Because of the small size of arh missiles i’m not 100% sure it will actually work like that
Yeah, thats correct, although there is some doctrinal difference in guidance logic required to hit specific target maneuver loads between nato and RU.
The size mainly poses an issue to the reliability of fuses/warhead more than anything. It requires radar fused missiles to be closer to the target, and while laser proximity fuse missiles don’t suffer in terms of detection range, they can have issues with activation reliability.
Stuff like the AAM-4 is also claimed to be capable of intercepting targets traveling at atleast mach 3, specfically for targetting incoming missiles actually. However its goal for such is ASMs, which have a much larger RCS (around 0.2-0.5m^2, versus ARHs having more like 0.01-0.1m^2).
Another large part about it, is actually around the warhead of the missiles and its chance of securing a kill. Annular blast fragmentation warheads need to be closer to smaller targets to reliably kill, and continuous expanding rods can have issues with fusing consistency actually hitting the target at all.
yup, i’ve noticed that a lot of missiles are specifically advertised for use against stuff like ASMs/cruise missiles, while the only missile that i’ve actualy seen as advertised for shooting down other air to air missiles is iris-t.
And why would the missile its intercepting be pulling 30G? If someone shoots a missile at me and I don’t maneuver, the missile fired at me is taking a straight line intercept vector… 0 loaded Gs.
that’s fair point to make, haven’t really thought of that.
so probably then, if you’re going straight head on with little/no maneuvering, then missile shootdown should be quite reliable like it currently is. If you are maneuvering a lot, then it shouldn’t be reliable
correct. this actually happens in game. the most reliable way to play iron dome meta is to fly straight to make the incoming missiles fly straight, making interception almost 100% reliable.
I’ve been doing tactical tests in EC and I’ve found that i have been intercepted less by launching off bore on purpose, to force my missile to have to pull hard to hit the target, making the iron dome strat more difficult for the defender’s missile to pull lead properly. Of course, this works only during the initial pull, after which the missile will go straight if the iron doomer doesn’t maneuver.
Another tactic that works on most planes is launching 2 off bore from different directions, left/right or loft/“deloft” (shoot under) to exploit vertical scan limits not being able to track vertically both at once.
I also take Brimstones in the EF2K if someone is doing this all the time, launch them first to waste intercepting missiles, then the actual AAM in the back.
I saw someone say to model accurate radar cross sections which would definitely make the issue more manageable. I don’t want to drag ground into this but if they did this dedicated missile interceptors like David’s sling can be added which I think is cool but I know people have mixed feelings on spaa
Been saying this to my friends for a good while.
I’ll even be honest here, whenever I play with the Su-30s, I do that simply because it’s easy, reliable, I can do it and most importantly, I can afford to, as I have 12 77-1s on my bus.
I remember a few years back it wasn’t this easy to even see a missile on your radar, even harder to shoot it down.
This is legit ruining the already scarce enjoyability of air gameplay. I was excited about the new F-16 being added, then remembered it has 6 AMRAAMs. An encounter with a Su-30 would probably go like: I fire all of my missiles, they shoot all of them down leaving me with guns only, they still have another 6 fox 3s to fire at me. 2 remaining for the Rafale, 4 for the EFT, F-15 etc etc.
Maybe don’t remove that “feature” entirely but yeah reduce their RCS or find another way to make it more unreliable so flying straight and firing at missiles fired at you is risky and not a guarantee of survival.
Uhh that says it’s able to detect those for countermeasure maneuvers, what I assume is going cold or notching, evading the missiles, maybe shooting down cruise missiles, anti-ship missiles and such. I don’t see anything indicating it’s meant to lock 8 fox 3s and shoot all of them down while not moving a single centimeter of the flightstick.
Plus note the “at least 6 seconds before its approach”, again, not detect 8 fox 3s at 20-40km range so the pilot can lock all of them and shoot them down.
Yeah, even if in theory it’s possible, something much easier to do under the simple keyboard commands and the comfort of our chairs in our rooms, instead of the controls of actual fighter aircraft under the stress of being pulverized in the next seconds… I still don’t think it has a place in this game, as exemplified even the competitive branch isn’t having it lmao. I think it should be less reliable, like yeah you can try shooting the missiles down, but a few slipping past is almost a guarantee.
but like how do you model this without it affecting other munitions as well. Basically everything in wt is gonna hit 100% of the time given the right conditions, and unless there’s rng which imo is terrible you can’t really model that
It wasn’t always this easy to shoot missiles down lol, certainly there are ways to address this problem. RCS is being mentioned but tbh I have no idea how the code handles that exactly. But I doubt it’s either “100% of hits” or “remove it entirely”
Its hilarious you brought this up. Few of my viewers tested this with brimstones essentially as decoys. Works pretty well, obviously though youre limited to EF2K and GripE but still. If we could mad dog Mavs thag could help US planes as well with decoys.
FFARs have a quite good lifetime actually, lasting up to 14km, in comparison to 8-11km for most other comparably sized rockets. Although I still feel like something a bit longer ranged would still server as a better decoy.
He’s not talking about CAS he’s talking about air sim and air RB your point makes no sense in this argument as your saying that op cas while the argument is that planes shoot down other planes missles too effectively no ground rb changes really needed. Edit I didn’t see hes response but will keep it up to support this forum
