Removed not really, but missile RCS should be decreased to the point where it’s functionally removed for all missiles but a phoenix.
21 Likes
I think this would be a great solution. Reducing RCS for missiles by a lot would make ARH tracks way more inconsistent and thus less of a “counterspell” and more of a hail mary if you are not able to notch them (which I feel is maybe not great still, but reasonable considering the current state of the meta)
4 Likes
I don’t really know personally.
My first guess would be radars between ground and air have varying lock strengths and search capabilities. Reducing whatever slider they have on entities that allow them to be tracked to the point of no longer being track-able from a planes radar.
RCS seems to be a hot topic when discussing this meta. I don’t know how its implemented in game but i know it is from game files. Hopefully when stealth is worked on more, maybe a byproduct will be reducing missiles RCS sizes to where plane radars can no longer pick them up.
sadly you bring up a good point… and this is one of the main reasons i dont think anything will change. but we can try atleast.
3 Likes
This won’t stop the most modern ESA radars from tracking. What really is horribly inaccurate alongside the ridiculously large RCS, is the 100% interception rate of Fox-3 against other Fox-3.
I think proxy fuse just shouldn’t trigger against a small target, and it shouldn’t be able to properly track a target going mach 4+, especially if multiple are close together.
Just look at this. The Su-30SM2 intercepted 8/8 of the eurofighter AIM-120, when they all were fired at a quick succession. Fox-3 simply are unable to do this irl.
15 Likes
Yep the problem isnt the fact that u can detect and track them, thats why air defense systems can intercept anything in the first place, its feasible and realistic in that way with modern radars - it’s the success rate that is the problem. It shouldn’t be anywhere near as reliable as it is now, even purpose built point defense systems dont have as high success rate as what we have with fox3’s, hell even the ground AA in game is less effective at intercepting supersonic atgm’s compared to aircraft and those arent nearly as fast as air to air missiles getting iron domed. They probs just need to tune their intercept logic to be less reliable against very fast stuff so effectiveness goes from like 95% way down to something significantly less dependable somewhere below 50% at least.
19 Likes
That isn’t exactly like that, ATGMs, bombs etc all have relatively huge RCS meanwhile something like AMRAAM has maximum 0.178^2/4*Pi=0,0249m^2 front aspect in case if every single wave was reflected perfectly back to emitter (which isn’t the case irl so practical RCS is even lower) so the detection range of a radar that can detect a 3m^2 target from 100km (current WT cap) such radar will detect that missile from max 100/((3/0.0249)^(1/4))=30.1km meanwhile in WT radars can easily pick up such missiles from up to max range which is 100km. This also reflects to ARH lock range like instead of 16km it should lock it from only max 4.8km so sum it with IOG drift, very high closer speed and you’ll get the situation where even if the missile will actually be able to lock another missile it simply won’t be able to turn in in time.
Also there’s a pretty high chance that ARH missiles radars simply filter out (or physically can’t detect ) anything flying that fast
11 Likes
Its not realistic, it’s not engaging, it’s not even fun
Get rid of it in Air Sim.
13 Likes
i will be the devils lawyer and ask why not? me personaly i hate it when my ET says oo a missile lets go after that and i dont hit the target or my r73 in a headon its going for the enemy missile and not the plane the same happens to the enemys as well, the main problem is when people J out before i get the kill then i launch 10 missiles so he wont get the kill if i wont
1 Like
Get rid of it. Only AESA should be able to see missles on radar. Still, even then. It’s not a very common occurrence.
2 Likes
The current Iron Dome (Missile vs Missile) meta at top tier is seriously damaging gameplay, and it’s starting to trickle down into lower brackets as well, exactly as Mustang said:
“We can ignore it and just continue to play sub top tier brackets.”
Unfortunately that’s not a viable solution anymore when the mechanic is spreading and affecting the overall experience in higher-tier air battles overall.
Using IR missiles to shoot down other missiles is annoying, but at least somewhat understandable since these missiles produce trackable heat signatures. But for radars and ARH missiles to be locking these things as easily as they currently do is both unrealistic and extremely unhealthy for the game. I’m glad Gaijin is giving us new radar filtering modes to experiment with on the dev server, but the current situation undermines a lot of the skills players spend time learning while climbing through the tiers.
Right now the meta encourages a very simple mindset (that unfortunately works):
“Why spend time learning how to notch properly, defend intelligently, and develop fair counterplay against good players when I can just fly straight at them and spam spacebar to delete their missiles? I have more anyway.”
The player attempting to defend properly by means of notching, positioning, and managing radar awareness and weapon count, can actually end up in a worse position than the player simply flying straight at them and intercepting everything they launch. Instead of rewarding tactical positioning and knowledge, the game rewards missile inventory and brute-force spam.
This is especially frustrating in ASB, where engagements are supposed to reward situational awareness, radar discipline, defensive flying, and map control. When missiles can simply be erased mid-flight by radar-guided counter-missiles, a lot of that depth disappears and makes the mode stale, unfun, and uncompetitive.
Preventing radars from detecting missiles outright (or heavily filtering them by means of some form of calculated RCS) would go a long way toward restoring top tier to a playable state. Various aircraft can get back to doing what they do well, and players could actually demonstrate the skills they developed while progressing through the tiers.
Right now, engagements too often devolve into missile-vs-missile spam instead of actual air combat .
This was a mouthful, sure, but this encompasses what a lot of us that actually primarily play ASB think and how we feel. I do hope the devs and playerbase can hear us out cos this is a biiig issue. 👍🏾
8 Likes
oh yeah ik, the rcs is entirely too detectable - but that point has already been made so i wasnt talking on it
These people will only J out once they either get a feeling that they’ve lost the advantage and will soon die, or outright know they’ve been outplayed and just J out.
Look at this clip lol, two equal planes. This guy J’s out the second the missile hits. If I knew he was gonna do it I would’ve just not launched the missile, but he only did it because I launched the missile and he didn’t get to first. ¯_(ツ)_/¯
3 Likes
Aside from the fact that shooting missiles is a no skill play style, this bring an immense unfair advantage to the planes with more missiles. Su30s with 12 arguably the best missiles in the game is already overpowered without even trying to shoot down the missiles. There are many players that is going high up, spamming missiles, shooting down whatever comes to them and going back to base. This type of play style should not be encouraged.
I have a solid 3-6 hours to the game every day and this is the reason i stopped playing anything above 14.0. Also another reason that i pulled the trigger on the f16 in dcs.
Simulator game mode has long been ignored by the devs or the decision makers. The path that it is following will simply have it vanished very soon. I hope it will be fixed but realistically, i don’t expect it.
4 Likes
Gaijin be like: ok, understood, ima about to break all radars to the level of freakin apg-73 or N001
1 Like
Datamines showed some slight radar adjustments, both for helping to reduce ground clutter noise but also some type of speed gating that might be addressing this issue. We’ll have to find out either if they re-open dev server after the current one closes or they just take these changes straight to the next update
1 Like
now in the game i am in this person j out multiple times doesnt he deserve a ban?? (the photo was taken 10 min ago)
if you read the replies you would see it was a misunderstanding and he already apologized. Be civil.
2 Likes
I did, hence I removed it.
For me, the radar filters are a step, but I think locking a missile should be impossible anyway. I use the cycle method to select my target and spam clicking to swap target to the enemy when there’s 5 missiles on my radar is very frustrating.
There needs to be two types of filters, viewable (what’s currently on the dev), and targetable, so you can choose what contacts you want to actually be able to cycle through, and which you want to ignore. When using an AESA I’d still like to see the missiles coming towards me, but I don’t want them taking up valuable time to cycle through to get to the actual important target. Though really, should just remove the ability to lock missiles anyway.
Personally I think the best fix would be a mix of suggestions, specifically nerfing the proxy chances to very very low numbers. The ability to “see” launches on radar is nice and allows you to gain alot of situational awareness on when to launch, notch, crank early etc. So keeping this function but reducing small munition proxy would be best of both worlds. Pair this with the new feature they are adding for filters I think there is a happy compromise for everyone.
Issue with this is it may have huge negative effects on ground RB. The ability to shoot down munitions in ground RB I personally think should remain, or at least be up to them to decide. So if there is a way to only effect plane launched munitions that would be honestly best case scenario.
The grind can affect the dome meta. Only one kill is needed to get the full reward. So now we have a bunch of … players who won’t have any fun, but will still get that easy reward. No skill, no effort, smt on the second monitor.