That’s not so called Soivet Union dude, it died in 1991 over 30 years ago.
Egypt (but on M113)
It still doesn’t make sense to add Dutch vehicles to the Frensh tree.
BeNeLux wise there are more then enough vehicles to form a full tech tree with a lot of unique vehicles. And not to forget, the Frensh have a lot of unique vehicles that would have been cooler to see in the game.
But for a subtree, it would only make sense to add the Netherlands under the German tree. Reason for this is the Germans and Dutch have worked close toghether in the past. A few years back the Dutch and German army even made a mixed tank squadron with crew from both countries operating in the same vehicles. This coöperation is only getting bigger as time moves forward.
Ground wise adding the Netherlands under Germany would result in getting less copy paste leo’s. And for example more boxer, fennek, cv90 (dutch variant), different (Dutch style) m113 platforms and other unique type vehicles.
Air wise, Germany hasn’t really got a good high tier (ground strike for example). Adding some Dutch rnlaf vehicles could bring that tree back up to speed with the rest.
Still the best option is a seperate BeNeLux tree offcourse.
1 Like
We don’t need a sub tree for France.
Gaijin just need to stop fucking us and give us French designs.
7 Likes
Worst part about all of this is that it’s seems like gaijin is way too keen to make every tech tree similar.
Uniqueness is what makes the trees special, at this point, why even bother with them if they’re going to ruin it like that?
That’s why I personally hate the idea of tech trees being focused on national rather then technological.
Everyone will be so similar that there’s becoming less and less theme between the tech trees.
Why even bother grinding different tech trees if they have the same vehicles? Likewise, why should I grind for a unique vehicle that is a modification of a vehicle from another tree?
Which everyone is fine with until unique vehicles appear and then start fighting over them.
Subtrees are “supposed” to be used to fill gaps when there isn’t anything else as well. But South Africa was the first and breaks that rule, France will be in a similar situation. We have the vehicles waiting to be added, but there’s still nothing.
So everyone is suspecting that if BeNeLux is added, then it will only serve to add copy-paste because they can’t be bothered to model domestic French vehicles.
No one wants to see Leopard 2’s or F-16’s in France, except for people that want their national representation or additions for the sake of additions, which most of what it does is add a roundel to the game that can be done in a better way.
BeNeLux has plenty of unique vehicles to give France, we don’t know what they’re planning though. Gaijin could be cooking up something that makes France a major nation or make us functionally FUBAR.
The K21-105 and 120 are both great vehicles that I previously didn’t think about for example. Which is why I support OPs suggestion as it has actual thought put into it.
4 Likes
Agreed (mostly). I think the Mirage 5 BA is fine, though I would like to see the Mirage 5 BA (MirSIP). As for the F-16s, the fact that France is getting them is insane. This is not like Italy and Japan which needed copy-paste fighters. France has the Mirage 2000s which are incredibly good fighters and the Mirage 4000 which is also extremely good. The NF-5A is fine. Whatever. It’s a 10.3 premium and I don’t care. I can tolerate it. The Leopard 2 Cockerill 3105 is also great, but I agree that we should also get the K21 (Cockeril 3105). As for the Leopard 2 A4 NL and 2 A6 NL, I really don’t like them. The 2 A4 NL doesn’t even have a lineup and only exists to create a vehicle to run the Leclerc Ares with when that inevitably is added as a premium. The 2 A6 NL is a necessary evil, emphasis on “evil,” but only for as long as it takes for Gaijin to actually fix the Leclercs and I would much rather just fix the damn Leclercs than to give us a 4th nation with Leopard 2s, especially considering Italy will definitely get the Leopard 2 A7 HU at some point (and unlike France, the 2 A7 HU is an actual necessary evil for Italy).
I think this whole thing is indicative of a really dangerous trend. We started with South Africa which had unique stuff at every rank with a single copy-paste vehicle, the Eland 90 Mk. 7, to fill a gap in the tech tree. Then we got Finland which was all copy-paste except for the Vickers Mk. E, T-26E, and BT-42. Then we got Hungarian ground which was slightly better, having 4 unique vehicles with the Csaba, Turan I, Turan III, and Zrinyi II. Then Hungarian air which had literally nothing unique and was all Soviet stuff with a JAS 39 at the top. And now we have BeNeLux with 2 and a half unique things: the Fokker G.I and Leopard 1 (Cockeril 3105) which are actually unique, and the Mirage 5 BA which isn’t unique, but is acceptable because France made the Mirage anyway.
8 Likes
The leopards aren’t even a necessary evil. They’re just being added because it is easier than doing shit properly.
Could add some French light tanks, and then Leclercs would be workable until fixed because at least you have something that isn’t a Leclerc. Still fix Leclercs, but this would make it workable even without leopards. Alongside actually giving us shit we’ve been asking to receive for a fair while.
2 Likes
I agree, I think the sub-tech tree should be added with a new experience rather than a rough copy, for me I have already experienced F16a and Leopard 2, and it would be a disaster for me to roughly copy these vehicles into the French sub-tech tree, and there are not a few players who are in the same situation as me
No, separate benelux tree would be over 80% copy-paste, of which no tree currently is.
The most copy-paste in any tech tree is likely China, and that’s slowly expanding into largely unique.
Even Israel is more than 60% unique.
I agree that China is a huge copy paste. With the air tree having roughly 61 copy pastes and only around 6 to 7 unique planes and ground being a big copy paste until around the 5th rank.
But It’s far from being close to largely unique since the majority is still recycled content.
Isreal wise i’m not sure what to think of it.
Air is again moslty a copy paste from what we already have. 22 existing against 6 somewhat unique.
But ground this time being a largely copy paste (not all) in the first 2 out of only 5 ranks.
(but lets be honest a bunch of look alike m60’s and merkava’s isn’t diverse or new either)
BeNeLux wise yea, if you only think about the leo’s they’ve had a few.
But for a ground tree there are more then 47 unique vehicles they can add until rank 4 before they would encounter the first possible copy paste (think about a possible leo 1 or centurion mk5 for example). But after that there would still be a large amount of unseen and unique vehicles to fill the higher tier. Ground wise it would be possible to add a 85 to 90% unique tree. Therefore a Benelux tree looking at it ground wise would be more unique then China and Isreal combined as they are now in game.
Air wise the first 2 to 3 ranks could be filled with unique planes (think about the fokker models for example). After those ranks we would indeed see some familiar faces, with france, bratain and american models making an appearance. But those still wouldn’t make it reach anywhere near the 80% copy paste you claim it to be.
I’ll include some forum links where you can read and see more examples of a possible BeNeLux tree.
(offcourse there are many more you can find by going to the search bar)
Possible BeNeLux ground vehicles
Possible BeNeLux air vehicles
Even for the rare navel lovers
Possible BeNeLux navel vehicles
If you have some spare time, i’d also suggest looking into some of the older vehicle information you can find online. (what vehicles Belgium, the Netherlands and Luxembourg used in the past 100 maybe more years) and you’ll see for yourself that there are plenty of unique ones out there!
2 Likes
unfortunately, we are talking about Gaijin, Hungary also has original concepts but has not received them (for the moment, I remain hopeful). I’m afraid that if the Benelux is really added to France there will only be copy and paste
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What? Ground is over 90% unique vehicles for Israel.
2 copy-paste Magachs, one of which is premium.
And air has copy-paste, but there’s also less air than ground.
So air being 60 - 70% copy-paste translates to Israel still being mostly unique.
And China’s almost mostly unique as well.
@Mathll
The leaks have at least half of Benelux being unique.
for the moment the leak list announces as vehicle:
- Fokker (unique)
- NF-5A (not unique)
- Mirage 5 (not unique)
- 2 F-16 (not unique)
- Leopard 1 Cockerill (unique)
- Leopard 2A4 (not unique)
- Leopard 2A6 (not unique)
We are rather on 25% unique vehicles
4 Likes
Mirage 5 is likely unique.
We don’t know about 2A4.
The Mirage 5 will be a mix between the French version and a Kfir (depending on the version that is added, it is clearly not a new one, at most the HUD will be different), the Leopard 2A4 will surely be the same as that of the German tree, therefore not a unique vehicle
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The NF-5A and Mirage 5 are unique (the Belgian F-16 could be somewhat unique too with Magic 2 and AS-30L but i doubt they’d add it)
How are they unique ? If it’s just new weapons I personally wouldn’t call it a new plane
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For high tier air standards it is.
The Mirage has new avionics, different missiles, countermeasures and a radar jammer, and the NF-5A is a modified modified F-5A with a more powerful engine, AIM-9Js, maneuvering flaps, and they could even add an experimental rack that would give it an additional 2 missiles
